FFE or FFH?

[Checkers]

I really like the look and all the options onthe Ford Fusion. I currently drive a Kia Optima Hybrid and have learned to drive it very efficiently. My best MPG was about 44, but this was going 55 on a two Kane road for the entire tank.

 

Let me tell you about my driving parameters. I drive about 35,000 miles a year with most trips averaging about 150 to 200 each way. I travel for work. I do also use the car for many shirt trips at hqome when not working. I know at first it seems like the FFH is the way I should go, but I am very much intrigued by the techy-ness of the FFE (did I just invent a word here). I do not have a place to plug it in one at my destination, so full EV driving would only be realized at the start of a long distance trip. The difference in MPG ratings scare me a bit. Trunk space is not a major concern as it is usually jurst me traveling. For family trips we use the Odessey.

 

So what do you think FFE or FFH is better? I know there are big rebates on 2013 FFEs now and with the federal tax credit I could come close on price. The only thing is that I would like to have heated steering and cooled seat like is have in my Kia. With these I find it easier to drive with the climate off or turned down to use less power.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks for the I site in advance!

[SteveEnergi]

You sort of answered your own question, logically the hybrid is the way to go for your type of driving (nearly all highway).  If you have a little bit of "off highway" driving at your destination/home then you'll gain some mileage in electric mode.  If you use EV on the highway then you'll exhaust it in about 10 miles, maybe 14, even though your indicator shows 23 miles at first.  This all depends on your highway speed, so above 55mph you go through the electric pretty quickly.  Someone on the site has a graph of energy used at varying speeds (larryh), I think.

 

If you're fine with spending the extra money for the Energi, then go for it and enjoy a pretty cool car.

 

Steve

[tseibel76]

Based solely on your drive, and assuming EPA fuel economy numbers, I would go with the FFH.  However, I do love driving in all electric (although it would only be for your first 20-25 miles) and it is pretty cool tech.  Also, if you build FFH and FFE on Ford's site, I think you'll see, comparably equipped, they are pretty close in price.  Guess this reply is not much help, you've probably crunched these numbers.  However, based solely on your driving habits, you probably would come out ahead with the FFH.

[jeff_h]

I say definitely go with the FFH based on number of expected miles driven and lack of charging capability during the day.

[rtshinn]

For your driving habits, FFH

[JATR4]

I have had both the FFH and FFE--currently FFE--and I will have a very hard time returning to a FFH.  I love EV mode.  But our driving habits are different than yours.  Longest one-way trip about 25 mi four times a week with the rest short trips.  With our driving habits we are getting about 60 MPG after adding in the cost of electricity. I pay $0.10 per kwh at all times which is relatively cheap.

[FormerFF]

If you are able to use the tax credit, the cost difference between the Hybrid and the Energi is negligible, and you'd use the battery for the many short trips you'd mentioned.  However, because you'd be hauling around the extra weight on your highway trips, you'd be using a bit more gasoline there, but would be using less on your local trips.

 

Sounds to me like you really want the Energi, but having a hard time justifying it.  Here's the way I look at it:  First, you've chosen to spend more money on a nicer car than you'd absolutely have to by getting a Fusion.  Something cheaper would do the job as well.  Lots of people get cars with things on them that they can't economically justify.  For years and years, US cars came standard with inline six cylinder engines and three speed manual transmissions, yet practically all of them went out the door with V8 engines and automatic transmissions, and no one ever tried to calculate the payback period of the larger engine.  If you want to drive around town in electric mode, there's no need to try to justify it economically.  If you really want the Energi, get it.

 

If you need some more justifications, let me know, I have a number of them.

[Energized]

For your trips that are 150 - 200 miles, how many of those miles are at city speeds and how many are at highway speeds? 

[murphy]

My longest one way trip around home is 10.5 miles.  All of my driving is electric only except for the really cold weather when the engine is forced to run.  When I go to my brothers house 265 miles away I leave in EV Later (Hybrid) mode with a fully charged battery.  When I reach my brother's house I use EV Now mode for local driving and recharge the battery before I leave using the 120 volt charger.  I drive home in EV Later mode and switch to EV Now mode when I get off of the high speed roads..

 

EV Now works best for city driving.  At 65 mph the battery will go down really fast.  I never use Auto mode because I never want to use the battery at the beginning of a long trip.

[vett93]

  I never use Auto mode because I never want to use the battery at the beginning of a long trip.

 

Why not using Auto mode for city driving? 

[murphy]

Why not using Auto mode for city driving? 

Because I don't want there to be any chance that the engine will start.

In EV Now it will pop up a message in the left display saying to push the OK button to allow the engine to start.  I ignore the message.

If you do a full throttle acceleration the engine will start immediately without asking permission.

I purchased 26.5 gallons of gasoline in 2013.  I haven't purchased any gasoline so far in 2014.

[Gigi]

If you want to drive around town in electric mode, there's no need to try to justify it economically.  If you really want the Energi, get it.

I've crunched a lot of numbers and been amazed by how much money my wife and I are saving by driving an Energi and an Electric.  More satisfying than the numbers is the feeling I get driving around town in EV mode.  It's so quiet and smooth.  I really like that.

[vett93]

...

I purchased 26.5 gallons of gasoline in 2013.  I haven't purchased any gasoline so far in 2014.

 

Is it a good idea to keep gas in the tank for a long time? My commute is 17 miles each way, and we have plenty of charge stations at work. But I choose not to charge at work so I can burn the gas in the tank as well. 

[murphy]

If the gas stays in the tank for 18 months the computer will force the engine to run to use it up.

It will also run the engine for oil maintenance.

I have not seen either of those situations since two 265 mile trips at the end of 2013 used more than a tank of gas.

This is all covered in the Owner's Manual.

[vett93]

Isn't a 18-month period a long time for gas to stay fresh? I did a Google search on the gas shelf life or life span. Most people seem to suggest that it is from 1 month to 1 year with stablizer. I am not sure that they are experts either though.

[murphy]

Read the paragraph entitled "Fuel Freshness Mode (Energi Vehicles Only)"

 

It's on page 158 in the manual that came with my car.

 

The car has a closed pressurized fuel system.  Hence the need for a button to depressurize the system before the door is opened.

I have to assume Ford knows what they are doing.  I'm not going to second guess them.

 

I keep gas a lot longer than 1 month in the gas cans for my mowers.  I do put Sta-Bil in the cans when the mowers are parked for the winter.

[Checkers]

Everyone,

 

Thank you for all the insight and opinions. I think that I have decided if I can get a FFE for a good deal with the equipment I want I am going to go for it. Since I already drive a hybrid, I think my learning curve should be short to get most out of it, even with highway driving being the majority of my driving.

 

I was curious, it seems like most people here drive mainly shorter commutes and drives. If possible I would to hear from anyone else that drive longer distances on a regular basis as well.

 

Again, thank you everyone for the input. This forum has been invaluable.

[jeff_h]

I was curious, it seems like most people here drive mainly shorter commutes and drives. If possible I would to hear from anyone else that drive longer distances on a regular basis as well.

 

My daily commute is 60 miles each way, and I do have access to a charger for the Energi near my office.

 

Here is the history of my 2013 FFH, which I had from January 2013 to December 2013 (for 35k miles) but then found a very good deal on a 2013 FFE.

 

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/jeffh/fusion-hybrid

 

 

And here is the history of the 2013 from January 2013 to present:

 

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/jeffh/fusion-energi-2

[FormerFF]

Isn't a 18-month period a long time for gas to stay fresh? I did a Google search on the gas shelf life or life span. Most people seem to suggest that it is from 1 month to 1 year with stablizer. I am not sure that they are experts either though.

 

It is my understanding that gasoline is much more chemically stable than it used to be, and when stored in a sealed container (like the FFE's fuel system) it is good for years.  The same is not true of the gallon can in your garage, so you might want to use that up quickly.

[Jeremy Harlin]

I was going to buy the ffh but then got the ffe because of a screaming deal on the last 2013 on the dealer lot. My family just did a 2000 mile trip from Oregon to California (disneyland). With 2 adults 3 teens and luggage we averaged 44 mpg. We did a fair amount of mtn. Driving due to our decision to drive over the sieras and stop in reno for a couple nights. I would not do get the ffh after having the ffe. One benefit was that the battery would recharge on the downhill sides. In fact the best part of the trip was entering the "grapevine" with 1/4 tank of gas. Going up the mtn I ran in ev mode and easily scaled the mtn without overheating or working the car over. On the way down it charged the battery that I had depleted and I found myself with the same 1/4 tank of gas and a full battery on the bottom of the other side. I was giddy with excitement and knew in that moment that driving an ev vehicle will be forever in my future.

 

Everywhere we went including Disneyland had preferential parking spaces for electric vehicles. Large parking spots where other ev owners were careful not to ding up my new car. Also we charged and drove around locally in those places on electric. On the flipside we hardly ever use gas while at home. My wife likes to run to the store almost every day for some ingredient that she needs. Those short trips save us a ton of money on fuel. I love love love my ffe. Best decision I have made this year.