vett93 Posted March 18, 2014 at 08:09 PM Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 at 08:09 PM I drove to work this morning and parked my brand new FFE Titanium (< 500 miles) in company's parking garage. I got out the car and found my parking was not straight. So I went in the car, started it, put it in reverse, and pressed the accelerator pedal. Instead of going backward, the car moved forward slowly and hit a metal fence and incurred some minor scratches. I stopped the car and tried again. The car wouldn't move at all. So I called Ford Roadside Services. 2 hours later, the truck showed up. The driver helped me push the car backward for about 5 feet. He then started the car and I could drive okay. So I took it to the dealer. They couldn't reproduce it. I asked the service writer to write me a ticket showing I went in but they couldn't reproduce my claim. The service writer told me that Ford policy is that they don't give me anything unless they can reproduce my claim. What do you guys think? Anyone had this problem before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blars Posted March 18, 2014 at 09:11 PM Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 at 09:11 PM Do you have the push-button start? Is it possible you pressed the button without your foot on the brake, so the car didn't actually turn on? Rexracer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Fusion Posted March 18, 2014 at 09:49 PM Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 at 09:49 PM My guess also. Was it on a slight incline so gravity would take the car forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vett93 Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:58 PM Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:58 PM My car does have the push start button. I am not 100% sure how I started the car the first time. But I am sure that I did put my foot on the brake in the subsequent effort. The car would not move. I tried 3 times in total before calling Ford Roadside Services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:21 PM Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:21 PM Was the car in Park? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Fusion Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:57 PM Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:57 PM I'm pretty sure I had the same thing happen twice. The first time I was freaking out since I had a job interview to go to. I got out and got back in and it worked. The second time was much more recently and I had to open the door and close it to reset it so it'd start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnorris78 Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:12 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:12 AM I have caught myself putting the gear selector in drive prior to turning the key. At first I thought I had a problem but quickly realized my error. I now watch for the ready to drive indicator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vett93 Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:22 AM Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:22 AM Was the car in Park? No. It was in R. I'm pretty sure I had the same thing happen twice. The first time I was freaking out since I had a job interview to go to. I got out and got back in and it worked. The second time was much more recently and I had to open the door and close it to reset it so it'd start. Were they user errors or car errors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:49 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:49 AM I meant when you tried to start it. It must be in Park to start the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vett93 Posted March 19, 2014 at 01:00 AM Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 01:00 AM I meant when you tried to start it. It must be in Park to start the car.Oh. Yes, it was in Park. I shut down the engine, parked the car, got out the car, found parking was not good enough, and then went back in to start the car trying to go backward. Is it possible you pressed the button without your foot on the brake, so the car didn't actually turn on? My guess also. Was it on a slight incline so gravity would take the car forward? Will there be no engine/motor braking at all if the car is not on and there is a slight incline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blars Posted March 19, 2014 at 01:50 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 01:50 AM I haven't tried, but its not your traditional transmission either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted March 19, 2014 at 02:49 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 02:49 AM I'm going to go with what FatFusion and Blars indicated... On occasion, I've thought I hit the brake and pushed the start button, put it in gear and the car wouldn't move. Noticed the light on the start button was blinking and I didn't have the green drive indicator on the dash. I then saw the message on the left screen stating the car was not in run mode (forgot exactly what it says). I put it back in park, pressed the brake and then hit the start button, and away I went. First time I tried test driving a Ford Focus Electric with pushbutton start, I didn't know I had to press the brake to start it... so I spent 5 minutes just trying to get the thing to move without avail. Salesman laughed when I told him I couldn't get the car to go and he told me how to start it. With the car on but not in run mode, you have no engine braking or regen... it's friction brakes only since the drive train isn't engaged (it isn't running). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEnergi Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:16 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:16 AM I agree with above; user error. When my wife first started driving the FFE, she had similar issues where the "car wouldn't go". She was anxious to put the car in "R"everse, before the "ready to drive" light illuminated, or she didn't have the foot on the break. After I observed her a few times, I pointed this out and she then didn't have an issue thereafter; but it did take her a couple of weeks to get used to. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 19, 2014 at 03:01 PM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 03:01 PM ... So I took it to the dealer. They couldn't reproduce it. I asked the service writer to write me a ticket showing I went in but they couldn't reproduce my claim. The service writer told me that Ford policy is that they don't give me anything unless they can reproduce my claim. What do you guys think? Anyone had this problem before? vett93, Let me look into this and see how I can help. PM me your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info; I'll see how I can help. :) Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vett93 Posted March 19, 2014 at 04:21 PM Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 04:21 PM Thanks, Ashley. I'll PM you. But can you please answer the question below. Others on the forum tried to help me but I am not sure they have the correct technical info. My question is: Does the car provide any engine/motor braking if the car is off and the transmission is in "R"? If the answer is yes, then others' suggestions do not make any sense. This is because the car moved forward when I put the transmission in "R". If the answer is no, then isn't it a design and safety issue? I need to know the fact. It would be greatly appreciated if you can consult the technical folks at Ford and answer my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 19, 2014 at 06:24 PM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 06:24 PM Thanks, Ashley. I'll PM you. But can you please answer the question below. Others on the forum tried to help me but I am not sure they have the correct technical info. My question is: Does the car provide any engine/motor braking if the car is off and the transmission is in "R"? ... Hi vett93, Once you send me over your info, I'll put you in touch with someone who will be able to address those questions for you. :) Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JATR4 Posted March 19, 2014 at 06:26 PM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 06:26 PM (edited) Thanks, Ashley. I'll PM you. But can you please answer the question below. Others on the forum tried to help me but I am not sure they have the correct technical info. My question is: Does the car provide any engine/motor braking if the car is off and the transmission is in "R"? If the answer is yes, then others' suggestions do not make any sense. This is because the car moved forward when I put the transmission in "R". If the answer is no, then isn't it a design and safety issue? I need to know the fact. It would be greatly appreciated if you can consult the technical folks at Ford and answer my question. You already have the answers to your problem. There is no engine braking when in R. That is what the emergency brake is for. Most likely you pushed the start button a split-second before you put your foot on the brake. You would have a blinking green light when you did this. The car is on but not ready to drive. You then put the car in R while you had your foot on the brake. The start button would still be blinking green. The car will not be ready to drive until you put the car in P (or N), put your foot on the brake, and push the start button again. When ready to drive the start button will be steady green--not blinking/flashing. I had a similar experience the first day I got my car--driven less than 40 miles. I was at my daughter's house and wanted to pair the home link with her hand-held remote. I drove about half a mile from her house so I wouldn't activate her garage door. It was pitch black, raining, and no street lights. During the pairing operation I pushed the start button and turned the engine off. I put my foot on the brake and pushed the start button but the car wouldn't start. There were no interior lights when I opened the door due to the settings, the owner's manual was on the counter at home, and I had no idea what was wrong. I kept putting my foot on the brake and pushing the start button to no avail. I tried to call the dealership but didn't have any luck. I also called Ford. Finally I figured it out. The car was in R or D when I turned the car off. When I finally put it in P and put my foot on the brake, I was able to start the car. I also had to put the emergency brake on to keep the car from moving. Moral of the story. You must put your foot on the brake before pushing the start button--if you want the car to be ready to drive. If you do it wrong, the start button will blink green. If you do it right, you will get a steady green light. There is no engine braking. Put the car in P or activate the parking brake to keep it from moving. On an incline the car will roll if it is not in P and/or the emergency brake is engaged. NOTE: The car will also start in N if your foot is on the brake. Edited March 19, 2014 at 06:30 PM by JATR4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vett93 Posted March 19, 2014 at 08:22 PM Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 08:22 PM Hi vett93, Once you send me over your info, I'll put you in touch with someone who will be able to address those questions for you. :) Ashley PM sent. Thanks, Ashely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vett93 Posted March 19, 2014 at 08:28 PM Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 08:28 PM ..... There is no engine braking when in R. ... Can you cite the source of this information? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JATR4 Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:16 PM Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:16 PM (edited) Can you cite the source of this information? Thanks.No. There is no engine braking on any automatic when in D or R. That is what the emergency brake is for. That is one reason to always use the emergency brake. I don't. Do as I say, not as I do. Try it on any automatic and it will roll on an incline unless the emergency brake is engaged or it is in P. The unique thing here is that with a key ignition you have to have the car in P in order to remove the key. The bush button start is different and takes a little getting used to. I am certain that there is nothing wrong with your car and that you had a blinking green light and not a steady green light. Unfortunately, your car was ON but not READY TO DRIVE--and you didn't realize that it was not ready to drive. Plus, you did not have the emergency brake on. You can go out to your car and check out what I have said. I did and found out that you could start the car in N as well as P. But for safety, it is better to use P. Edited March 19, 2014 at 10:29 PM by JATR4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted March 20, 2014 at 02:17 AM Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 02:17 AM (edited) To sort of piggyback off of what JATR4 indicated... the eCVT transmission uses 2 electric motors that work with the ICE to send power to the wheels. The main traction motor (MG2) which propels the wheels directly, and another electric motor (MG1) which is what actually works with the ICE to send ICE power to the wheels. When an electric motor has no power, they spin freely... I don't know of any electric motor that can't be spun when power is off. With the car in power on mode, neither electric motor has power, and as a result, can move totally freely in any gear except P(ark). Park uses a pin in the transmission to keep it from spinning while in park. You can take a look at this link to see how the eCVT actually works. http://eahart.com/prius/psd/ MG1 will spin freely while the ICE is idling, and will slow down and start resisting movement when it begins working with the ICE to power the wheels. It's a really nifty piece of work. All vehicles I've owned will not allow you to start it if it is in any gear except P or N, and they also roll freely in all gears except P with the motor off. Edit: I had MG1 and MG2 backwards... switched them. Edited March 23, 2014 at 01:20 PM by Russael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JATR4 Posted March 20, 2014 at 02:27 AM Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 02:27 AM To sort of piggyback off of what JATR4 indicated... the eCVT transmission uses 2 electric motors that work with the ICE to send power to the wheels. The main traction motor (MG1) which propels the wheels directly, and another electric motor (MG2) which is what actually works with the ICE to send ICE power to the wheels. When an electric motor has no power, they spin freely... I don't know of any electric motor that can't be spun when power is off. With the car in power on mode, neither electric motor has power, and as a result, can move totally freely in any gear except P(ark). Park uses a pin in the transmission to keep it from spinning while in park. You can take a look at this link to see how the eCVT actually works. http://eahart.com/prius/psd/ MG2 will spin freely while the ICE is idling, and will slow down and start resisting movement when it begins working with the ICE to power the wheels. It's a really nifty piece of work. All vehicles I've owned will not allow you to start it if it is in any gear except P or N, and they also roll freely in all gears except P with the motor off.That's what I meant to say, but I didn't have the knowledge to say it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vett93 Posted March 20, 2014 at 06:37 AM Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 06:37 AM When an electric motor has no power, they spin freely... I don't know of any electric motor that can't be spun when power is off. ..... This is simply incorrect. I am an electrical engineer by education and I taught power system while in graduate school. Electric motor does not spin freely when no electric power is connected. You need to have force to spin the motor and it becomes a generator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted March 20, 2014 at 09:31 AM Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 09:31 AM The generator, electric motor, and ICE are all interconnected through a planetary gear system. The ICE has a clutch to disengage it, but the generator (and most likely the electric motor) do not. When the car moves, they are forced to spin. I have plotted OBD II data showing the RPMs and torque of the generator (I do not have any data for the electric motor). When the ICE is off, the generator speed is proportional to the speed of the car, and the torque on the generator is essentially zero. The generator is forced to spin, but is not generating any power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted March 20, 2014 at 09:51 AM Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 at 09:51 AM (edited) The following is a plot showing the RPMs (the RPMs shown in the chart have been divided by 100 to fit on the graph) and Torque for the generator. Initially, the ICE is off (Absolute Load of the ICE is 0%) and the generator RPMs is proportional to the car's speed. The torque is negligible--it is just spinning and not consuming or generating much power. When the ICE turns on, the torque increases and is proportional to engine load. The RPMs slow down. The ICE is spinning at 1500 RPM. Edited March 20, 2014 at 10:38 AM by larryh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.