How does a full battery accept regen braking energy?

[viajero]

Ok, just did a full range of testing, and read the manual just to make sure, and I was right all along.  There is no always on coasting regen on this car.  Driving in L only does engine compression braking, but no Regen.  Having the grade assist option turned on does allow for regen, but ONLY if "the vehicle determines the amount of engine motoring and high-voltage battery charging".Ref., Page 166. This means that unless you are going down a grade of less that 5%, there will be no Regen coasting unless the car determines that there will be.  On level grade no Regen at all.  I just tested my car on all the conditions except for steep downhill (in the Dallas are we have none of that). 

 

L - Engine compression braking.  No Regen arrows or of energy into battery.

D with Grade Assist - Level and downhill test produced no Regen arrows or energy back into the battery.  

L with Grade Assist - Level and downhill test produced no Regen arrows or energy back into the battery.

 

For reference, please see Page 166 of the owners manual for this.  Disappointed again.   :(

 

Everything you have said is not true for me.  In D I always have regen coasting.  In L I always have even more regen coasting.  The only exception is if the battery is full, in which case the ICE will do compression braking in L.

 

In an earlier post you said that the car's onboard systems use more power than regen can provide.  That is also not true.  When coasting to a stop my battery SOC increases.  Going down a big mountain I can fill up more than half an empty battery.

 

If your Energi is behaving as you described, something is very wrong with it, and you should take it in.

Edited March 23, 2014 at 03:24 AM by viajero

[Apogee1]

Display -> [Your Display mode: IE Inform, Enlighten, etc] -> Battery Display -> Charge Assist -> Yes/No

 

[Page 78] Charge Assist .

 

Page 178 describes the regenerative braking system as well.

 

 

 

 

All my arrow systems are turned on.

 

My manual was printed in Nov. 2013 for the 2014 year model. Pg. 78 has to do with the moon roof, and page 178 is electronic parking brake.

 

There is no mention of Charge assist in my manual.

[Apogee1]

In an earlier post you said that the car's onboard systems use more power than regen can provide.  That is also not true.  When coasting to a stop my battery SOC increases.  Going down a big mountain I can fill up more than half an empty battery.

 

 

 

of course going down a hill it will regen, and you won't be using as much because of gravity, C'mon that's a given.  Tell me it's the same on a level grade, it isn't, otherwise why would you ever need a gas engine?  

[Apogee1]

I see the input arrow and the output arrows during normal operation, even it there is regen during the process, it is very very minimal on the order of volts, which is why it never seems to regen.  I'm going to go out an test it now when there is no one on the streets and only use L coasting "regen" and see what the recovered energy is and will post the results.  

[Apogee1]

Okay.  Drove exactly 6.9 miles all in EV mode two times.  So it does have coasting Regen, even though my manual doesn't indicate that it has it.  Good to know.  (I stand corrected, but, again this is another time the manual was wrong since there is no mention of charge assist in my manual for coasting regen.)

 

Driving in L mode - Regen Coasting miles were 1.4.  I only hit the brake to ensure a complete stop.

 

Now on this, I tried to allow the coasting to do most of the work, and the regen braking avg was 84% Very non-aggressive.  My normal braking avg. is 99%.

Driving in D mode - Regen Coasting Plus Braking miles were 1.4

 

I'm going to take it out again tomorrow and retest using good braking at 99-100% and see what the results are.  3:30am, and I only got 2 hours last night so I'm tired. 

[Russael]

There is a second printing of the 2014 manual at owner.ford.com.  I did a search in that manual and Charge Assist is mentioned in it, as well as how to enable those up/down arrows over the battery level indicator.  Searching a PDF file is WAY easier than thumbing through the book.

 

Now, I don't know if it counts those totals in the amount of regen that it shows you during a trip, but it definitely recaptures energy at every opportunity.

 

I apologize for the frustration you're experiencing, but we're all trying to help.

[Fat Fusion]

I'm having an issue where I think my car is over charging.  When I charge at work it's in a parking garage on the 3rd floor.  Often, when I go to drive out of the garage the ICE will engage and go to RED LINE.  It's not a simple engine braking scenario as I would expect.  It's revving waaay too high.  The white curved bar doesn't follow the engine RPM's at all.  Any speculation?

[viajero]

I'm having an issue where I think my car is over charging.  When I charge at work it's in a parking garage on the 3rd floor.  Often, when I go to drive out of the garage the ICE will engage and go to RED LINE.  It's not a simple engine braking scenario as I would expect.  It's revving waaay too high.  The white curved bar doesn't follow the engine RPM's at all.  Any speculation?

 

This exact same thing happens to me when I start the car in L gear with a full charge.  Others on the C-Max forum have seen it, too.  Even if I'm accelerating away from the charger, the engine will rev wildly.  If I start in D and don't shift to L until I get below 97% charge (on the Scangauge) this doesn't happen.

[Apogee1]

Can Someone expand the acronym ICE for me?  I've tried looking for this everywhere and can't find out what it means.  

BTW, probably going to put gas in the car Monday, (the dealer said they would give me a second tank for free) we currently have just short of 1K mile on the first tank of gas with an avg. of 79.8 mpg.  Still have (according the nav computer_ 120 miles to go on the gas. 

[murphy]

Can Someone expand the acronym ICE for me?  I've tried looking for this everywhere and can't find out what it means.  

 

 

Internal Combustion Engine

[viajero]

of course going down a hill it will regen, and you won't be using as much because of gravity, C'mon that's a given.  Tell me it's the same on a level grade, it isn't, otherwise why would you ever need a gas engine?  

 

The regen produces more power than the car's background usage, but its efficiency is less than 100%, so you get less energy when coasting to a stop on a level grade than it took to accelerate you up to speed from a stop.  Otherwise we'd have a perpetual motion machine and we'd be rich! :)

 

For an example with some made-up numbers, it might take 400 Watt-hours (0.4 kWh) to accelerate from 0 to 60.  Then if you immediately let off the gas and coast to a stop, you only get 300 Watt-hours added to your battery because some energy is lost in the mechanical-electrical conversion and some in charging the battery.  Then when you accelerate again you only get 270 Watt-hours out of the battery because its discharge isn't 100% efficient either.

 

So, either the ICE has to start and add another 130 Wh, or your battery ends up 130 Wh lower than at the start of the coast.  The good thing is that regen has saved you the 270 Wh that would otherwise have been lost to heating the brake pads, so the ICE only has to put in 130 into your next acceleration instead of 400.

[Apogee1]

There is a second printing of the 2014 manual at owner.ford.com.  I did a search in that manual and Charge Assist is mentioned in it, as well as how to enable those up/down arrows over the battery level indicator.  Searching a PDF file is WAY easier than thumbing through the book.

 

 

 

 

The manual on the website is from June of 2013, and my printing is from Nov. of 2013.  How frustrating that FORD can't keep all it's facts together.  I suppose I'm more frustrated with how they explain how to do something.  I'm replacing my yellow headlights with Ultra bright white beams, but their instructions are so basic and without diagrams it is totally frustrating.

 

from page 256.

 

1. remove the headlight assembly.

2. remove the service cap.

3. Disconnect the electrical Connector.

4. Release the retainer spring and remove it from Headlamp.

5. Install new bulb in reverse order.

 

No figures/examples of what it looks like.  Seem they are more interested in saving money on printing costs than helping their customers. 

[Energized]

The manual on the website is from June of 2013, and my printing is from Nov. of 2013.  How frustrating that FORD can't keep all it's facts together. 

 

 

That is inaccurate.    As Russael indicated, the website has both the First and Second printings listed, as shown below.  

 

The Second printing is dated Nov 2014 and it does mention Charge Assist almost a dozen times.

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2014 at 01:48 AM by Energized

[Fat Fusion]

This exact same thing happens to me when I start the car in L gear with a full charge.  Others on the C-Max forum have seen it, too.  Even if I'm accelerating away from the charger, the engine will rev wildly.  If I start in D and don't shift to L until I get below 97% charge (on the Scangauge) this doesn't happen.

 

Thanks!  That's easy enough to test this week at work.

[Apogee1]

The Second printing is dated Nov 2014 and it does mention Charge Assist almost a dozen times.

 

 

 

When I first saw the files, and the way they are listed as 1,2 and 3, I assumed they were continuations of just one manual.  when I clicked on 3, I then discovered that it was from Feb of 2014.  Not Nov 2014 as you typo'ed since it hasn't happened yet.  ;)