openair Posted March 15, 2015 at 09:28 PM Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 at 09:28 PM (edited) Personally L1 vs L2 is as circumstantial as which PHEV to buy. If your primary concern is saving money on fuel (gas and electricity) different PHEVs, or even simply certain hybrids, will give better or worse fuel savings depending on how often and how far you drive. If you're driving ~90% highway, a Prius hybrid (not the PHEV version) is probably your best bang for your buck after vehicle + fuel cost over the life of the vehicle. If you're driving ~50/50 city/highway, a Fusion Energi is probably your best bang for your buck after vehicle + fuel cost over the life of the vehicle. If you're driving ~90% city a Focus Electric or a Volt is probably your best bang for your buck after vehicle + fuel cost over the life of the vehicle. A L2 charger is similarly circumstantial. For most with an Energi yes, it is a largely a convenience thing. Both for preconditioning and 2.5 hour charges instead of 7. Every other Friday I wish I had an L2 charger because I more often than not cannot charge at work and an L2 charger would allow me to leave for the girlfriends for the weekend (a 75km drive where I cannot charge there) with a full charge instead of waiting for something above 50% before I leave. I also live and work in rural Ontario. If, after work, I want to go into town for some errands I'm often leaving before the battery gets topped off after the drive to work and back because places would be closed before I got there otherwise. I haven't actually done the math, but I'm pretty sure an L2 charger would pay for itself much faster, in my case, than pioneer11's scenario. Except, and this I why I do not actually have one, I am moving within the year and have a detached garage that is quite a distance from the house as well as inadequate lines from the street to the house to support a 240v line out to the garage. Meaning using up the provincial incentive here instead of my new place plus new lines from the street poles to the house and a new line out to the garage adds a lot to the cost than the average person. But I fully intend to have a L2 charger installed at my new place. Edited March 15, 2015 at 09:32 PM by openair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankanddara Posted March 15, 2015 at 09:50 PM Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 at 09:50 PM I got a "like New" L1 Nissan Leaf charger on eBay for $250. It works great! Now I've got my Ford Convenience charger securely wall-mounted at home, and leave the Nissan charger at my workplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted March 16, 2015 at 05:26 PM Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 at 05:26 PM (edited) I don't think it is that much of an economic advantage. It is the convenience of pre-conditioning and the speed of charge. If you can get a separate meter it may work out over time, but so far I've not seen the benefit in my case. If you only charge once a night, like I do, there isn't a lot of point. And here in LA preconditioning is less needed. I know some folks would disagree with that last one... Edited March 16, 2015 at 05:27 PM by stevedebi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctfusion Posted March 18, 2015 at 01:10 PM Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 at 01:10 PM I just got a new Clipper Creek LCS-20 yesterday, installed it and had the car plugged in at 5:30. By 7:30 I had an email telling me my car was charged. That was incredible! But even more incredible was getting into the car this morning. It was 22 outside and the car was nice and toasty before I took off. Is the L2 worth it from a financial standpoint - that's debatable. Is it worth it from a comfort and convenience standpoint - without a doubt!! Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneer11 Posted March 18, 2015 at 11:53 PM Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 at 11:53 PM Is the OEM L1 under-powered for preconditioning in cold weather? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 19, 2015 at 12:08 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 at 12:08 AM Is the OEM L1 under-powered for preconditioning in cold weather?Yes. The maximum power from a 120 volt 15 amp outlet is 120 x 12 = 1440 watts. The heater in the car draws up to 5000 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctfusion Posted March 19, 2015 at 01:22 PM Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 at 01:22 PM Is the OEM L1 under-powered for preconditioning in cold weather? Yes. The maximum power from a 120 volt 15 amp outlet is 120 x 12 = 1440 watts. The heater in the car draws up to 5000 watts.Which, unfortunately, means the L2 is also under powered since it maxes out at about 3600 watts, just not as much under powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 19, 2015 at 01:54 PM Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 at 01:54 PM Is the OEM L1 under-powered for preconditioning in cold weather? Which, unfortunately, means the L2 is also under powered since it maxes out at about 3600 watts, just not as much under powered.Actually it's 240 volts x 16 amps = 3840 watts. In either case the battery must be fully charged before conditioning starts so all of the power is available for heating. The garage door has to be open first but remote starting works a lot better. It completely warms the car in less than 15 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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