Lincoln Energi?

[PaulinPalmSprings]

With all this talk about Ford trying to re-launch Lincoln, I had a thought. Why don't they make Lincoln the 'environmental' brand for Ford and sell only plug in and hybrids?

 

When I purchased my Energi, I compared it to the MKZ Hybrid.. not only was the Lincoln not available as a plug-in (don't understand that marketing move) it was hard to justify the price difference in the two cars with what just appeared to me to be trim and styling upgrades.. the Energi Titanium had all the bells and whistles and technology that the Lincoln had (myLincolnTouch? - they barely even changed the name!)

However, when you walk out the door of the Ford Dealer paying a very hefty price for one of their premium cars, and return for service or parts, you certainly don't get the 'premium' experience you would expect if you spent that same amount of money over at Lexus. Why not make Lincoln the Hybrid/Energi brand - then when you pay a premium price for the car, you know you will also get premium service and support going forward - which is part of the ownership experience. My dealership experience has been night and day compared to Lexus.

 

Just my thoughts.. I spent more on the Energi as I did my former Lexus.. love the car, but the dealer and ownership experience is very different….

[Rexracer]

That’s a good thought but...

 

Lincoln dealers rarely stand alone, so even if you buy a Lincoln, you are still going to b going to a Ford dealer

 

For Lincoln to be competitive, they have to offer the same or better performance/Luxury/appearance as the other luxury brands. To instantly straddle their cars with a very costly drive train that not everyone wants (hybrids/EVs are a small percentage of total vehicle sales) would only further hamper their appeal to all potential buyers.

I think that Lincoln should have EV/Hybrid options, but not that those options be the only ones.

I really like some of the recent Lincoln’s vehicles, wife and I walked by one and it looked very expensive (in a good way) and stood out from what you would normally see.

[meyersnole]

I too was disappointed that the Lincoln was not offered as an energi. I most likely would have purchased (coming from an Acura). 

 

We do have a Lincoln dealership in Cary that is not shared with Ford. Not sure if the service experience is better there or not. Let us hope that Ford does not follow the same path now as Cadillac and come out with its version of the Cadillac ELR. 

[PaulinPalmSprings]

"For Lincoln to be competitive, they have to offer the same or better performance/Luxury/appearance as the other luxury brands."

 

In my opinion, Lincoln is not competitive in performance, luxury or appearance.. so my thought was making the whole line a hybrid/plug in line would at least set it apart from the competition and they would be better at something…just my two cents.

 

I never considered an american car before buying the Energi, and was impressed with the fusion and equally unimpressed with the Lincoln…my two cents!

[rtshinn]

I want a Energi Ford Ranger. Or as a second choice an Energi F150.

[Russael]

An Energi F150 is something I'd be VERY interested in.  Drop in a 3.5L or 4.2L Atkinson V6, a 150kw traction motor, the internal eCVT motor at 100kw, 15kw/hr battery and it should still have plenty of torque to get your load moving.  Taking an F150 from ~16MPG to north of 30 would turn a lot of heads.

[rtshinn]

The best use for me would be EV for commuting, ICE for weekend projects.

Ahhhh..... if only...

Oh, and $45k or less.

[timf]

I debated back and forth between the Fusion Energi and MKZ Hybrid, and ultimately the decision came down to the MKZ Hybrid being $100 less per month than the Fusion Energi (note: this was in November and the Energi would come in lower since the price cut).  I liked the styling and few extra luxury touches of the MKZ better than the Fusion, but thought the driving experience of the Energi was better with the much greater electric range.  The Fusion Hybrid never factored into the equation.

 

If there had been a MKZ Energi, that would have made the decision for me regardless of the price.  I've been very pleased with the car, but I know when this lease is up I'll only be looking at plug-in vehicles.  If Lincoln doesn't offer one by then, they won't have a chance of keeping my business.

[PaulinPalmSprings]

Has anyone heard any rumors about Lincoln making a plug in? Seems like they are re-addressing their business model and updating a lot of their products.. just wondering if electrifying their products is in the plan...

[stevedebi]

An Energi F150 is something I'd be VERY interested in.  Drop in a 3.5L or 4.2L Atkinson V6, a 150kw traction motor, the internal eCVT motor at 100kw, 15kw/hr battery and it should still have plenty of torque to get your load moving.  Taking an F150 from ~16MPG to north of 30 would turn a lot of heads.

Interesting  you should mention this. It made me think, and I don't believe anyone has made a 6 cylinder Atkinson cycle engine. They are all four bangers.

[Russael]

Interesting  you should mention this. It made me think, and I don't believe anyone has made a 6 cylinder Atkinson cycle engine. They are all four bangers.

They're all 4 cyl engines because everything with an Atkinson cycle motor is designed as a hybrid or plugin hybrid for maximum efficiency.  I don't know of any vehicle that runs on that cycle that isn't a hybrid of some sort.  There are a handful of plugins that still run on the otto cycle (I think the latest gen volt does this).  I believe the Atkinson cycle engine has poor torque and correspondingly poor horsepower too, so they're not practical in anything except with something that has electrification.  The 2.0L ICE in the Fusion does 141HP with 129lb-ft where in the Focus, the 2.0L has 160HP and 146lb-ft.  Same displacement, different cycle.

 

I do wonder if they'd ever electrify an F150.  Granted, that little 2.7L turbo motor really has my attention, especially since it produces 60 more HP than my 5.4L V8 in my Expo.  Problem is as soon as you add 4wd, it tanks to the 3.5L level of economy.

[stevedebi]

They're all 4 cyl engines because everything with an Atkinson cycle motor is designed as a hybrid or plugin hybrid for maximum efficiency.  I don't know of any vehicle that runs on that cycle that isn't a hybrid of some sort.  There are a handful of plugins that still run on the otto cycle (I think the latest gen volt does this).  I believe the Atkinson cycle engine has poor torque and correspondingly poor horsepower too, so they're not practical in anything except with something that has electrification.  The 2.0L ICE in the Fusion does 141HP with 129lb-ft where in the Focus, the 2.0L has 160HP and 146lb-ft.  Same displacement, different cycle.

 

I do wonder if they'd ever electrify an F150.  Granted, that little 2.7L turbo motor really has my attention, especially since it produces 60 more HP than my 5.4L V8 in my Expo.  Problem is as soon as you add 4wd, it tanks to the 3.5L level of economy.

Yes, the Atkinson cycle torque curve is poor at low speeds, but is pretty good at higher speeds. Hence the pairing with the electric motor for low speed "grunt".

 

I really don't see the point of an F150 with hybrid. I would think it is just too heavy, but looking at the specs it is only about 500lb heavier than the Escape (the closest vehicle to the C-Max, and a better comparison than the FFE). But the battery and electric motor would have to be a lot larger to make it work, and the truck would be underpowered if the battery got depleted. Pickup owners value their power. Add that to the costs (which would probably be similar to a small diesel cost), and I'm not sure it makes sense economically.

[Russael]

I'd still like to see a proof of concept.  Yeah, the F150 is heavy... the 4x2 model with crew cab and 5.0L V8 curb weight is 4623lbs... the CMAX Energi is 3900... so about 723lbs difference.  Thing is, once you add a battery and all the electrical gizmos to the F150, it'll make it heavier, but maybe not as much as one would think.  You're putting in a smaller ICE which saves weight, etc.  The fuel tank could probably be reduced to maybe 18 gallons to save room/weight.  Maybe use the 2.7L in an Atkinson cycle?

 

The F150 is leagues bigger than the CMAX too.  If they could give it 20 - 30 miles EV range similarly to the Fusion , I think people would seriously look at it.  Think about it... most people buy trucks but then don't use them as trucks every day.  They use them as their daily driver.  People like big vehicles.  There's several F150 drivers at work who might use their truck as a truck a couple weeks out of the year.  I almost never use all the cargo capacity in my Expo... MAYBE once a year.  So it sits and collects dust.

 

Other problem... where are they going to put that battery?  I'd sincerely hope they'd find a place for it under the truck bed or under the cab somewhere.

 

The lightest F150 with crew cab comes in at 4560... a difference of 660lbs.

Edited January 2, 2016 at 09:09 PM by Russael

[stevedebi]

I'd still like to see a proof of concept.  Yeah, the F150 is heavy... the 4x2 model with crew cab and 5.0L V8 curb weight is 4623lbs... the CMAX Energi is 3900... so about 723lbs difference.  Thing is, once you add a battery and all the electrical gizmos to the F150, it'll make it heavier, but maybe not as much as one would think.  You're putting in a smaller ICE which saves weight, etc.  The fuel tank could probably be reduced to maybe 18 gallons to save room/weight.  Maybe use the 2.7L in an Atkinson cycle?

 

The F150 is leagues bigger than the CMAX too.  If they could give it 20 - 30 miles EV range similarly to the Fusion , I think people would seriously look at it.  Think about it... most people buy trucks but then don't use them as trucks every day.  They use them as their daily driver.  People like big vehicles.  There's several F150 drivers at work who might use their truck as a truck a couple weeks out of the year.  I almost never use all the cargo capacity in my Expo... MAYBE once a year.  So it sits and collects dust.

 

Other problem... where are they going to put that battery?  I'd sincerely hope they'd find a place for it under the truck bed or under the cab somewhere.

 

The lightest F150 with crew cab comes in at 4560... a difference of 660lbs.

Well, Ford has a lot of hybrid experience, so we will see.

 

BTW, the C-Max Energi has the same EV range as the FFE.