Long Term Durability of the Energi's Battery

[Spartyof83]

After 20,000 miles, I am very happy with my Energi. I keep getting people telling me that this is NOT a car I can expect to keep for the long haul (7-10 years) without having to replace the entire battery pack. I understand batteries tend to lose their charging power after a while, but does anyone know what a realistic time frame would be before we would likely have to swap out the battery pack? It's not uncommon for me to hold a car till around 200,000 miles so I would need to factor this into my long term decision making plans.

[murphy]

All hybrid components are warranted for 8 years or 100,000 miles although I don't think that includes reduced battery capacity.

 

Even if the battery dropped to 50% capacity the car would still be functional with a 10 mile electric range and the full range using the ICE.

 

I kept my first hybrid for 4 years and then upgraded to the Energi when it came out because that is what I wanted when I bought the hybrid.

 

It will be interesting to see where the technology is in another 4 years.

[FusionEnergi]

My first hybrid was a civic which I had for 9 years and I traded it in for the Energi. I also still have the camry hybrid which I purchased in 2007. Both vehicles NiMH batteries showed no battery signs of reduction or loss. The Energi has a better lithium battery which should last much longer.

In some areas the Energi battery is a 10 year 150,000 mile warranty.

Edited November 25, 2013 at 04:58 PM by FusionEnergi

[jeff_h]

I noted this in another thread somewhere, that this tends to be the thing we get asked more than anything else, which is "what are you gonna do when that big battery needs to be replaced?" - I guess the paradigm is that a battery is a battery is a battery and they have a life expectancy in their head of a normal 12v car battery.

 

My 2005 Prius (which I bought new) is now owned by my co-worker, he got it in 2009 (when I bought the 2010 FFH) when it had 128k miles.  I still see it in the parking lot at work, a couple months ago he passed 200k miles and the HVB is just fine.

 

For my 2010 FFH I got it in 2009 and had it until Jan 2013 when it had 145k miles, it is now owned by my wife's best friend and I see it every couple months at my house to change the oil while the wives and kids are inside chatting/etc.  I last saw it a couple weeks ago just about to turn 168k miles, the HVB is the same as when it was new - if it had lost a step in capacity then I think the MPG would be a bit lower due to the ICE needing to run more, but she is keeping the average at 39 (mine was 39.7 average when I had it) so that indicates to me that the behavior of the HVB and ICE have not changed.

 

We also had a 2006 Escape Hybrid, only had that one for 66k miles (still ran like new) and never had any problems with the HVB.

 

So of course this is all anecdotal, but if there were any hint of widespread longevity problems with the HVBs I think there would be some coverage of it in various publications or web sites, but personally I haven't seen it and attribute the 'HVB ambivalence' to the long-standing 12v battery expectancy of being a few years and then going kaput with little warning.

[Spartyof83]

Based on what I've been reading from various hybrid owners over the years, it would appear that this particular battery has the ability to last quite a while. If I can get 10-12 years from it, I'd be very happy.

[shaggy314]

With LiOn it is a bout battery cycles as well. So it depends on how often you are going through a complete cycle. Unlike other technologies, you have to add complete cycles, not charges, so two 50% to 100% chargings equal a charge cycle. Also, two 25%, a 30%, and a 20% = one charge cycle. Your iPhone is something like 1000 charge cycles (coinciding with it's estimate 3 year battery).

 

The older hybrids had NiMH batteries which brings a slight memory effect, but that's a whole can of worms once you had conditioning software... like we have on the Energi (cell bank conditioning).

 

I imagine that Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and now Ford have learned to over capacity their rated batteries size so as to allow for decreasing battery life and still have the stated range/capacity within warranty.

 

I do two cycles a work day plus 1-2 on a weekend, so I'm on the leading edge of lifespan. I'll let you know in 3 years...

Edited November 26, 2013 at 07:56 PM by shaggy314

[meyersnole]

This is a common story, oh what will you ever do when the battery stops working in x years. As mentioned above, we know we have at least 8 years / 100,000 miles (more in some states like California), but even then you can expect the technology to improve as well as the economics.

 

When the Prius first came out, I remember asking the same question. It appears that now that people are actually having to replace them they are spending around $3,000ish... kinda like your transmission failing. Except when these are replaced I would expect better performance than the original part at a fraction of the price (I think the part is currently around $9,000 today) with better battery chemistry and hopefully less weight/size. Maybe even options... like reclaim some of your trunk for the same range or spend a little more to get an equivalent sized battery with 3x (or more) the range. 

 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1077652_replacing-a-2001-toyota-prius-battery-pack-what-it-cost