Cold Weather Observations

[larryh]

I once forgot to unplug the 240 from the Energi. I got in, pushed the start button and a warning came on telling me to Unplug prior to starting vehicle. I would hope that the engine would not start up either being that it is in the garage warming.

 

 

I did use remote start.  As I said, I find it to be more energy efficient at heating before I leave, but I will have to rely upon Go Time when parking in the garage.  I wish the ICE were disabled when plugged in.   Maybe I'm in the minority.

 

I wonder if it's actually less expensive (more energy efficient) to run the ICE for heat.  My commute is 16 miles, so on cold days, I'm just making it to work with little heat.  Once it gets really cold (Northwestern CT), I bet I'll need to use some gas.

 

I have had the ICE turn on with the car was plugged into the charger.  If you remote start the car, you should not leave the garage door closed.  GO times should not start the ICE. 

Edited November 20, 2013 at 10:54 PM by larryh

[larryh]

It is about 15 degrees this morning.  I remote started the car with it plugged into the charger.  The ICE started and ran for a few minutes.  So even if the car is plugged, in there is no guarantee that the ICE won't start even if the car is plugged into the charger. 

[Fat Fusion]

How warm was the car when you got in Larry?

 

I've been setting my car to 65* but it's only been in the high 40's / low 50's.  I'll only see the high 20's here by the middle of Jan.

[larryh]

The car interior is quite warm after remote starting or using GO times.  It must be in the 70's.  I set the temperature to 72.  If the outside temperature is in the 40's and 50's, then using Remote Start should not start the ICE.  I would still set the temperature to 72.  When it is cold, the car cools down very quickly, so the warmer the better.

Edited November 23, 2013 at 10:58 AM by larryh

[larryh]

This morning it was 6 degrees.  I tried using GO times with the car connected to the 120 V charger and the temperature set to 72 degrees.  It started preconditioning one hour prior to the GO time and consumed 1.33 kWh of electricity.  When I entered the car at the GO time after preconditioning had completed, the car's interior was very cold as if preconditioning did nothing.  Preconditioning doesn't seem to work at all with the 120 V charger when it is cold.  At least the HVB was 100% charged after one hour.   You need a 240 V charger for preconditioning to work in really cold weather.

Edited November 23, 2013 at 02:19 PM by larryh

[larryh]

It was about 8 degrees this morning.  This time I tried to remote start the car with it plugged into the 120 V charger.  The ICE started right away and ran for a few minutes and then turned off.  Later, it turned back on again.  After 10 minutes, the passenger cabin was at least warm and the HVB was fully charged.  Remote starting warms up the cabin in cold weather, whereas GO times do not when using the 120 V charger.  The 120 V charger does not work to precondition the vehicle in cold weather. 

Edited November 24, 2013 at 02:37 PM by larryh

[danwat1234]

This morning the temperature was 12 degrees.  I set the GO time temperature to 72 degrees.  The car starting preconditioning at 5:08 am.  I left at 5:42 am--the GO time is set for 5:40 am.  So it preconditioned the car for 34 minutes.  During that time, it consumed about 1.88 kWh of electricity.  That is more energy than is required for the commute to work during the summer. 

 

After the windows starting fogging up half way to work, I turned on the climate control to 60 degrees.  The ICE ran for a couple of minutes.  Next time, I will try setting the temperature to Lo and see if that starts the ICE.

 

I plugged in the engine block heater for a short while to verify it works.  It consumes about 440 watts of electricity.  I'm not sure what this will do for me.  I will have to experiment. 

Does anybody know the exact temperature that the engine will come on with a fully charged battery with the climate control system off?

With the 2013+(and some 2012s) Volts it is 15F ambient temperature and with the 2011 and most 2012s it is 25F. Maybe the Ford Energi cars are set even lower?

The Volt's engine just comes on to assist with cabin heating, it doesn't directly heat the battery pack at all. I believe it is a similar tactic with the Ford Energi cars, since I believe they are air cooled so there is no way to directly heat the pack. The Volt's battery has a 1800w resistive heater but that is totally separate from the engine system and coolant lines.

[larryh]

On the way home today, it was about 22 degrees.  I set the climate control temperature settings to 63 degrees.  I had the mode set to EV Auto.  After a minute, the ICE came on and stayed on.  Both the ICE and electric motor were contributing about equal power to move the car.  Only when I switched to EV Now, did the ICE turn off.  There may be a difference between EV Auto and EV Now when it is cold.  Normally, the ICE never turns on in EV Auto mode when it is warmer during my commutes to work so I always left it set in that mode.

[larryh]

This morning I was able to drive to work entirely in EV mode by setting the mode to EV Now with the temperature set to 65 degrees.  It was 10 degrees this morning.  I didn't have enough charge left in the battery to make it back home entirely in EV mode.  Once you switch the mode out of EV now, the ICE will immediately start and will not turn off for a few minutes. 

Edited November 28, 2013 at 09:40 AM by larryh

[tseibel76]

That's an interesting observation larryh. I'll have to try it. I have always stayed in EV Auto. When I turn on the heat in 10 degree weather, the ICE always cycles on and off (even set to 60).

 

Yesterday I had a passenger and had the heat set to 60, the ICE cycled on and off and the system said it was due to "Heater Setting". It was about 18 out.

 

I'll definitely try out the EV Now setting. I did notice the other day when it was about 2 above, the ICE came on. I was surprised, because I had the climate off. When I looked at the screen, it said the ICE was on because of "Normal Operation". I was in EV Auto then too.

[larryh]

Others have also reported that the ICE does not turn on when the mode is set to EV Now under most conditions, except perhaps when the defroster is enabled.

Edited November 28, 2013 at 10:12 AM by larryh

[murphy]

If you are in EV Now and "floor" it the ICE will come on with a message that says performance requires it.

[Russael]

I get a popup message asking me to hit "OK" to enable the engine while flooring it.  It doesn't come on for me otherwise.  Haven't tried it at this temperature though.

[jeff_h]

Others have also reported that the ICE does not turn on when the mode is set to EV Now under most conditions, except perhaps when the defroster is enabled.

 

We were driving last night and in EV now, turning on the defroster made the ICE come on.  Then I turned it off and went to climate in MFT and turned on heat through the dash vents and ICE did not come on.... dash vents + defroster and ICE did not come on... then turned off dash vents and left only defroster on and ICE immediately came on.  This was something I hadn't seen before, but needed the defroster since the windshield was starting to fog -- next time I will try to start the dash vents first and then add the defrost and see if that again keeps the ICE from coming on.

[Russael]

We were driving last night and in EV now, turning on the defroster made the ICE come on.  Then I turned it off and went to climate in MFT and turned on heat through the dash vents and ICE did not come on.... dash vents + defroster and ICE did not come on... then turned off dash vents and left only defroster on and ICE immediately came on.  This was something I hadn't seen before, but needed the defroster since the windshield was starting to fog -- next time I will try to start the dash vents first and then add the defrost and see if that again keeps the ICE from coming on.

 

The ICE will come on if you use a defrost setting that uses both heat AND the A/C compressor.  The A/C unit comes on as a dehumidifer which clears away fog faster.  I hated it when it did that with my truck, so I usually picked the floor/defrost manually, which kept the A/C off.  I expect the same would happen with the Fusion.

[chris]

just wondering if preconditioning works with the 120v charger, go times are set everything works, fans are on but blows cold air, never seems to get warm,

[larryh]

Preconditioning does not work very well for me with a 120 V charger when it is cold.  When it was 8 degrees last week, preconditioning started 1 hour before the GO Time.  The car consumed about 1.3 kWh of energy from the charger, but the cabin was cold as if no preconditioning occurred at all.  I don't think the 120 V charger can provide enough power to the car to heat the car in cold weather.  Even with a 240 V charger, the car does not warm up to the selected GO time temperature.  It is usually around 50 degrees after preconditioning, even though the GO time temperature is set to 72.  At least the HVB is fully charged with either the 120 V or 240 V charger at the GO time following preconditioning. But the car cannot seem to both fully precondition the vehicle in cold weather and keep the HVB fully charged.

Edited November 28, 2013 at 10:01 PM by larryh

[Fat Fusion]

Have you guys tried setting the temp to 65?  I tried 72 and as I recall I didn't get much activity.  Changed it to 65 and it seems to work better.

[larryh]

This morning the temperature was 11 degrees.  I started the car and left it plugged into the 120 V charger.  I set the climate control temperature to 72 degrees.  The console showed that the heater was taking 5+ kW of power for about half an hour before power usage dropped to about 2.5 kW.  The console showed the car had consumed 2.6 kWh of energy from the battery and the HVB was now 55% charged.  The climate control was set to Auto and the fan reduced speed at this time.  So I assume that the car had decided it was about done warming the cabin to 72 degrees.  However, my thermometer showed the temperature to be in the mid 50's.  But of course, the temperature varies depending on location in the cabin.  It felt relatively warm inside. 

 

There is no way that the 120 V charger could provide enough power to warm up the cabin to 72 degrees for preconditioning via GO Times.  In one hour, it could provide 1.34 * 0.72 = 0.96 kWh of energy to the battery.  The 120 V charger supplies 1.34 kW of power, of which 72% is actually stored in and extracted from the battery (the rest is lost since charging/discharging a battery is not 100% efficient).  It will take about 2.6 kWh / 0.96 kWh = 2.7 hours to recharge the battery.  By that time, the car will be cold again.

 

For a 240 V charger, the charger supplies about 3.4 kW of power and is 82% efficient.  So in less than one hour, it could restore the battery to full charge.

Edited November 29, 2013 at 01:22 PM by larryh

[chris]

I did set the temp back to 65 and the air that was coming out was between 63 and 66, via a thermometer next to the vent, it is the warmest ive seen coming out so far, and if that is all the warmer it gets, its better than 5 degrees...

[larryh]

Well actually, the 120 V charger seems to be significantly less efficient in the winter making matters even worse.  It took 4.28 kWh to recharge the battery for 2.6 kWh of extracted energy.  The efficiency is then only 61%.  I assume similar reduced efficiency for the 240 V charger.  Hopefully, most of that 39% wasted energy is in the form of heat that warms the battery and eventually the trunk and passenger cabin. 

Edited November 29, 2013 at 03:51 PM by larryh

[danwat1234]

This morning I was able to drive to work entirely in EV mode by setting the mode to EV Now with the temperature set to 65 degrees.  It was 10 degrees this morning.  I didn't have enough charge left in the battery to make it back home entirely in EV mode.  Once you switch the mode out of EV now, the ICE will immediately start and will not turn off for a few minutes. 

10 degrees? That's better than a Volt (15F or colder engine will cycle on and off no matter what, for no real reason except cabin heating assistance). I also like the idea of the 'GO time' feature so the battery will both be charged and cabin heated as much as possible. With the Volt you are limited to two 10 minute cabin heating cycles I think, and if you're not carefully to leave some time after cabin heating, the battery isn't fully charged by the time you get in the car.

Edited December 1, 2013 at 08:47 PM by danwat1234

[larryh]

10 degrees? That's better than a Volt (15F or colder engine will cycle on and off no matter what, for no real reason except cabin heating assistance). I also like the idea of the 'GO time' feature so the battery will both be charged and cabin heated as much as possible. With the Volt you are limited to two 10 minute cabin heating cycles I think, and if you're not carefully to leave some time after cabin heating, the battery isn't fully charged by the time you get in the car.

Preconditioning the cabin when it is cold has worked OK for me as long as the car is plugged into a 240 V charger.  The coldest it has been when I used the 240 V charger is in the mid 20's in my garage. 

 

A 120 V charger is useless for preconditioning when it is this cold--the windshield will not even be defrosted (well maybe it warms up the HVB so you get better range).  The air coming from the vents is barely warm.  Preconditioning begins one hour in advance of the GO time when it is this cold.  So it takes a significant amount of electricity.  However, the HVB will be fully charged at the GO time with either the 120 or 240 V charger. 

 

If you have a 120 V charger, you will have to remote start the car to warm up the cabin.  If you leave the mode in EV Now, the ICE will not start and the HVB will be used to warm the cabin.  The ICE will do a better job of warming the cabin, so you might want to leave it in EV Auto.

Edited December 1, 2013 at 10:19 PM by larryh

[larryh]

This morning it was -6 degrees.  In the garage, it was 16 degrees.  Preconditioning started 50 minutes before the GO time.  The car consumed 2.9 kWh of electricity using the 240 V charger.  The temperature in the cabin only made it up to 43 degrees.  Its better than 16 degrees.  So even with a 240 V charger, the car has a hard time heating up the passenger compartment when it is very cold.  At least I have a garage that is about 22 degrees warmer than outside to help.  It probably wouldn't work well if the car was left outside in the cold in below zero weather. 

 

For my 57 mile weekend commute today, I got 39 MPGe.  In the summer, it is in the 60s and 70s.   The trip was only 31% EV.  In the summer, it is usually in the 50s and 60s.

Edited December 6, 2013 at 03:45 PM by larryh

[larryh]

This morning it is -13.  The car has been sitting outside all night.  MyFord Mobile now shows an EV range of 13 miles.  Normally, in the summer it shows 25.  EV Range has been reduced by half by the cold weather.

Edited December 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM by larryh