Cold Weather Observations

[larryh]

Lately, it has been in the mid 20's here in MN.  The cold weather has reduced my EV range from 25 miles to 20 miles, provided I precondition the car using GO times.  I set cabin temperature to 72 degrees for preconditioning.  When driving, the temperature is set to 63 degrees.

 

I arrive at work with 12 miles of EV range (the distance to work is 8 miles).  After letting the car sit for 10 hours in the cold, when I return to the car for my trip home, the EV range has dropped to about 8 miles.  The cold definitely takes its toll on EV range and preconditioning results in a significant increase in range.  But I have no place to plug the car in at work. 

 

For the return trip home, the engine starts up soon after starting the car if the heater for climate control is turned on.  It stays on for a couple of minutes.  Then I am able to go the rest of the way home in EV mode (just barely).  The total amount of plug-in energy consumed, shown on the car's console, is about 5.1 kWh.  Normally, it would be about 5.9 kWh for a completely depleted battery. You cannot get as much energy out of the battery when it is cold. 

 

The 120 V charger is not very effective in preconditioning the car in the cold.  The car uses the energy from the battery to precondition the car.  It does not directly use energy from the charger.  The charger then tries to restore the energy to the battery used to precondition the car.  But the 120 V charger cannot keep up.  You will be starting out with a less than full charge after preconditioning the car.

 

The 240 V charger works much better.  I have a full charge when starting out after preconditioning the car.

Edited November 8, 2013 at 01:34 PM by larryh

[tseibel76]

larryh, I too have been wondering what cold weather will do to the HVB/range. It has been down into the teens here already (ND). The ICE has not fired up on its own yet. I always leave the climate completely off and will only turn it on if I have passengers. The seat warmers work great!

 

I have noticed a reduced range because of the cold and the climate really reduces the range.

 

I'm curious to see what happens at -30! I'm almost certain the ICE will come on periodically to keep the HVB warm. However all cars suffer lower efficiency in cold weather.

 

I can't complain. I've driven the last 500 miles without using a drop of gas!

[larryh]

Until the temperature fell into the 20's, I had no problem turning on the climate control for heat.  The ICE did not start and I was able to make it to work and back entirely in EV mode. 

 

Yes, I am also curious to find out what happens when it gets really cold.  My car came with an engine block heater.  I wonder if that is of significant benefit and will do anything above and beyond the heater core used for climate control. 

[Russael]

I find that odd that your car has an engine block heater since I was under the impression that the 5kw heater for the car heated the engine coolant.  I assumed it not only heated the cabin, but also circulated that coolant through the engine block.  The engine block heater wasn't even an option on Ford's website while customizing the car.  I've seen it as an option on other models.

 

Next time my car preconditions (on Monday), I'll pop the hood and see if the motor is warm.  I suppose it could be a completely separate system... never really investigated it though.  I didn't think there would be 2 coolant pumps for that system.

[larryh]

I believe that the engine block heater is standard on all cars delivered to Minnesota.  I'm not sure if the 5 kW heater for the cabin also warms the engine.  They could divert the coolant to just the heater core for the cabin.  I'm not sure.  It would seem to be a waste of energy if it heated the engine too.  When I look at the temperature gauge for the engine on the console, it doesn't show the engine temperature to be very warm using just the 5kW heater.  Note that the 5 kW heater uses more than 5 kW.  There occasionally is a tiny 5+ kW in the upper right corner of the gauge on the console showing the energy used by climate control.

Edited November 9, 2013 at 03:37 PM by larryh

[zimm25]

I posted this elsewhere, but maybe this is the better thread for the answer-

 

If the car's plugged in, will the ICE turn on when using remote start or Go Time to pre-heat the car?  Don't want any fumes coming up from my garage!

[murphy]

I've been preconditioning mine for almost 7 months.  The ICE hasn't started.  There is no reason that it should with unlimited energy available from the wall.  I would hope the ICE is inhibited from starting whenever the car is plugged in.

[larryh]

The ICE should not start if GO times are used to precondition the car.  However, if you remote start the car, I can't guarantee that the ICE won't start.  If the high voltage battery is low and the charger cannot keep up with the power required for preconditioning the vehicle, the ICE will most likely turn on.  Warning from the manual:

 

To avoid exhaust fumes, do not use remote start if your vehicle is parked indoors or areas that are not well ventilated.

 

The ICE has started on me when the car is plugged in.

Edited November 9, 2013 at 09:59 PM by larryh

[Russael]

I checked the motor and coolant this morning as my car was preconditioning and both the motor and coolant reservoir were stone cold, so there goes that.  I guess in that case maybe the electric heater is a closed loop system?

 

On the way to work today, I noticed the power draw from the battery for the heater fluctuated between 1.5 and 3kw the whole way.  It seemed to increase draw as I was moving faster which makes sense.  Maybe they need to start thinking about possibly putting insulation in the cabin to keep it warmer longer and to save battery life?  Temp this morning was 40.  Tomorrow morning is predicted to be 26.

 

I tried setting my go time temperature to 85 for some extra heat.  Didn't even come close.  Felt like it was 72 when I got in the car.  The fans were going like crazy too when I came out.  With go time temps set to 72, you have to walk up to the hood to hear the fan going.  My regular temp that I keep the car at is 72.  I may decrease that as it gets colder.

[murphy]

Did you have recirculate turned on?  If not there was cold air from outside being brought in continuously to be heated.

[Russael]

No, I didn't have that turned on... I just left it on 'auto'.  I tried using recirculate once before with my Ford Focus with the heat and floor vents and it had some oddball effects.  It didn't make it any warmer or colder and the vent noise got quite loud, as if something were blocked.  I thought recirculate is more appropriate if you're using the dash vents and not the floor ones.

 

If recirculate is turned on... what becomes the 'intake' instead of the outside vent?  With A/C, I thought it was the floor vent.

[Russael]

So I tried recirculate today.  Windows fogged up in a huge hurry.  Meh.  Car temp said it was 24 this morning.

[larryh]

This morning the temperature was 12 degrees.  I set the GO time temperature to 72 degrees.  The car starting preconditioning at 5:08 am.  I left at 5:42 am--the GO time is set for 5:40 am.  So it preconditioned the car for 34 minutes.  During that time, it consumed about 1.88 kWh of electricity.  That is more energy than is required for the commute to work during the summer. 

 

After the windows starting fogging up half way to work, I turned on the climate control to 60 degrees.  The ICE ran for a couple of minutes.  Next time, I will try setting the temperature to Lo and see if that starts the ICE.

 

I plugged in the engine block heater for a short while to verify it works.  It consumes about 440 watts of electricity.  I'm not sure what this will do for me.  I will have to experiment. 

Edited November 12, 2013 at 06:48 PM by larryh

[tseibel76]

It was 9 degrees on the way to work this morning. Kept climate control off, but the windows started fogging up as usual. I did my usual trick of opening the moonroof and cracking the back window. I used the seat warmer too. It cleared the windows.

 

However, that'll start to get too cold to do here pretty soon. So, I'm going to start experimenting with defrost. Larryh, I'm also going to try Lo. What temp is that? I think it might just be outside air directed in to the car w/o heating it first, but I'm not sure. If that is the case, it won't be any different than the moonroof trick.

 

Hopefully we can find a solution without forcing the ICE to fire up. I guess if it has to, it has to.

[Dag]

It was 28 here this morning. I ran the heat the whole way I lost about 7 miles.

 

My normal commute is 18.5 miles. On a 60 degree day, I pull in with 7-8 miles on the battery with 100%EV

 

Today I had 1 mile left on the battery 100% EV.

Edited November 12, 2013 at 10:00 PM by Dag

[larryh]

GO times are not working the way I would expect to precondition the car when it is cold.  Normally, when it is warmer, preconditioning starts 15 minutes before the GO time.  However, when it is cold, it seems to start much earlier.  Today, it was about 22 degrees.   Preconditioning started 40 minutes before the GO time.  The car consumed about 1.8 kWh of electricity to precondition the car.  That seems rather excessive.  Starting 15 minutes before the GO time should warm up the car more than adequately.  GO times are wasting a lot of energy.  I think they could use some improvement.

 

If I used the 120 V charger, preconditioning for 40 minutes would significantly deplete the battery. 

Edited November 19, 2013 at 09:27 PM by larryh

[Russael]

I agree.  If I remote start the car while it is still plugged in, it's plenty warm within 10 minutes, but I've also noticed that my battery may have depleted a mile or two.  Then again, a Go Time may not exceed a 3.3KW draw while it is warming the cabin and needs a longer period to warm... but it shouldn't be no 40 minutes.  I'd say 20 minutes would be plenty at temps around 20, but maybe it's trying to create residual heat too (warming the seats with ambient temperature takes some time).  I don't know the engineering behind it so I'm just speculating.

[zimm25]

I found that Go Times were a much bigger drain than just remote starting 5-10 minutes before I leave.  BUT. . . I think the ICE is starting on really cold days.  I started it this morning (25 degrees outside) about 10 minutes before I was going to leave and peaked outside just before I was about to go.  There was exhaust coming out of the tailpipe!   I got shoes on as fast as possible, ran out to the car and found the ICE was off.  I'm 100% sure that I saw exhaust coming out of the tailpipe which is a HUGE concern for the times I want to park in the garage and still heat up the car a bit before taking off in the morning.  

[Russael]

Did you remote start your car today or rely on the go time?  I know if you remote start, there's a much greater chance of having the ICE come on (but I don't know if that may also have anything to do if it's plugged in to 120 or 240).  There's a youtube video if a Volt that was plugged in to 120 that immediately fired the ICE on an extremely cold day (something like -20).

[SteveEnergi]

"go times" will not start the ICE.  For a "go time" to work, the car must be plugged in.  "Go Times" ensure the car is charged by that time as well as preheating/cooling the car, using electricity only.

[FusionEnergi]

I once forgot to unplug the 240 from the Energi. I got in, pushed the start button and a warning came on telling me to Unplug prior to starting vehicle. I would hope that the engine would not start up either being that it is in the garage warming.

[zimm25]

I did use remote start.  As I said, I find it to be more energy efficient at heating before I leave, but I will have to rely upon Go Time when parking in the garage.  I wish the ICE were disabled when plugged in.   Maybe I'm in the minority.

 

I wonder if it's actually less expensive (more energy efficient) to run the ICE for heat.  My commute is 16 miles, so on cold days, I'm just making it to work with little heat.  Once it gets really cold (Northwestern CT), I bet I'll need to use some gas.

[SteveEnergi]

I'm in CT as well and there is a point where you need to be comfortable in the car.  I also was trying to use as little gas as possible and wanted to avoid using the heat, but then when I started thinking about it.  Why spend $40k on a car only to not be comfortable in it?  Gloves, hat, and scarf to stay warm driving to work?  Then your warm breath, fogs the windows so you wind up using the climate anyway or roll down the windows, only to be colder.  I gave in and started using the heat because I thought I was going a little overboard with this whole notion of saving gas.

 

Also, when it's cold out, the engine needs to maintain a certain temperature so it's going to turn on.  If the engine is going to be on, you might as well use the climate and warm up.

 

My commute is 10.4 miles round trip, so I can get to work and back using all EV and climate.  I then plug in to a 240 when I get home, so I can get a charge prior to running the kids around.

 

Steve

[FusionEnergi]

Great point SteveEnergi. I have been doing the exact scenario you spoke of: rolling the window down to unfog the windows only to be colder. Time to be comfortable, life is short and I ain't gettin any younger.

[tseibel76]

I've been experimenting with the Lo temp setting in climate. I'm pretty sure it just blows outside air in w/o heating it. It was 19 this morning and the air coming in was cold. Also, the display showed the climate was not using any power. I also did not see a range drop when I turned it on. A benefit is that it did a really good job of keeping the windows from fogging with having it set to floor (not defrost). It seems defrost always drops range and shows climate usage, even at Lo.

 

As soon as I bump it up from Lo to 60, the range drops and the display shows climate using energy. My plan is to always leave the system on, in full manual mode, set to Lo and the floor at the lowest fan setting. Then, when it gets really cold, I'll bump the system up to 60. I will also use the heated seats.

 

The first test comes tonight as the temp is supposed to drop to 6 above by this evening. We are supposed to go below zero for the first time on Friday (ND).

 

I'm with Steve, once the ICE comes on just to keep the HVB warm (or for any other necessary reason), I'll use heat. Might as well if it's already on anyway.