1st Electric Bill shock

[pbay]

Greetings,

I'm starting my journey of investigation to my first electric bill since getting the Fusion Energi. We're with Los Angeles DWP. The rates don't change with the time of day use but there are 3 tiers depending on your amount of use. Looking back the last 2 years my Kwh use for the billing period of July to Sept (65 days) was about 1500 Kwh average. But, in this year's period it shot up to 2990 Kwh. That's just about twice the amount. That's roughly 32 nights of full charging as we didn't get the car at the start of the billing period. 

 

So in 32 nights of charging I used 1490 more Kwh? is that consistent with what others use or do I have some other energy drain out of the ordinary? This puts us in pricier Tiers and the electrical portion of the bill is over $350 more than average for this time of year.

[larryh]

1490 kWh would provide about 5000 EV miles.  You would have to be charging a depleted battery about 7 times a day to go that far in EV mode.

 

If you charged the car once a day with a fully depleted battery, that would amount to about 210 kWh / month.  A full charge requires about 7 kWh using a 240 V charger.

 

My total electric bill for charging and the house was 750 kWh last month.

Edited October 5, 2013 at 05:44 PM by larryh

[jeff_h]

Couldn't you also go into the MFM site and look at the trip and charge log to see how many kWh charging was done?  Don't know how far you can scroll back on the web site when you choose 'show all' but if you can scroll back that far you should be able to get a pretty accurate tally of Energi charging (provided you know which ones were done at home and not elsewhere), right?

[pbay]

UPDATE: I finally got thru to DWP and it more than likely is the new "Smart Meter" they recently installed. They're going to come out and do a visual read. I suspect this is the root of the problem.

[murphy]

There is also the possibility that they misread the last reading on your previous meter.  Mention that to them.

 

Have the run capacitor in your A/C compressor tested.  They go bad on a regular basis.  The last time I did mine the 45 mfd capacitor was down to 0.7 mfd.

 

Charging a fully depleted HVB in my car takes around 6.9 kWh.   I have a kWh meter dedicated to the 240 volt charger. 

30 days times 6.9 kWh = 207 kWh which matches larryh's post above.

[howardbc]

Thanks, pbay. Let us know what you find out after DWP comes out. I had a smart-meter installed a year or so ago and haven't noticed any change in the amount of electricity I use. I estimate it costs me about 60 cents for every time I charge my car.

 

I pay the extra 2 cents per kilowatt hour because I signed up with Pear Energy. They get all their energy from wind power plus some solar power. To me it's worth it.

 

Thanks again for the post. 

[Dag]

I just got my electric bill today as well. This bill closed out BEFORE I had my car, so it's a great test to see what the bill will do.

 

I used 1552kwh for the 30 days. The total bill was $135.95 - so a real average calculation says I'm paying .09 per kWh. With that logic, and charging from dead every day, my bill will go up around $20 a month.

 

I'm ok with paying $20/month for all these EV miles. I was paying $300+ for Gas per month. :D

[Russael]

I thought I was power hungry consuming 600kwh in a month.  That actually puts me in a slightly elevated tier with DTE (costs like a penny more per kwh over 500).  I personally haven't seen much of a dent with the car.  I use about 2kwh per work trip 4 days a week, so that's about 32kwh a month.  Not much.

 

I just got my smart meter installed 2 weeks ago and I've been keeping an eye on it to make sure it falls in to my normal usage patterns.  So far, it seems to match.

[tangozulu]

According to my recent electric bill for the period September 23rd to October 23rd, during which I drove the Fusion Energi approx.. 840 miles averaging 28 miles a day fully charging once a day,  the total bill electric for the whole house including charging the car was 680 khw   -- of which the car consumed about 150 khw (dashboard display not including charging losses),    Cost per khw here is 9 cents for the first tier and then 11 cents after that.   So I am estimating the electricity costs for me are about 20 U.S. dollars a month to operate.   For two months I drove 1600 miles on one tank of gas requiring 10 gallons to fill up October 25th, which cost 32 U.S. dollars at $3.17 per gallon at Costco.   

 

Cost summary for the last month: 20 U.S. dollars for electricity, 16 U.S. dollars for gasoline for a total of 36 U.S. dollars a month, $432 a year assuming my driving style remains consistent. 

 

My driving and braking scores average around 85 to 88.  The first 3 miles of my commute is surface streets all down hill (800 feet) so lots of brake regen (on a full battery) and last 3 miles is all up hill (usually in hybrid mode with gas engine on).  I sometimes charge up during lunch time.

 

Conclusion: The battery size on this car is a good fit for my type of driving. 

[larryh]

My electric bill for charging the car last month was $0.99, i.e. less than a dollar.  I have a separate meter for the charger.  Last month they swapped out my old meter and replaced it with a new smart meter.  I just had the original meter installed a couple of months ago.  They didn't charge me for the electricity on the old meter that was swapped out.  It had 93 kWh on it.  They only charged me for the 17 kWh on the new meter.  I used 110 kWh of electricity for the month to charge the car at home (I charge at other locations than home too).

Edited October 27, 2013 at 11:00 PM by larryh

[Wadeskees]

We have had our energi since mis April and our bill has actually went down. We pay more attention to our usage, turning off lights, running the AC less this summer, etc. We were so concerned when we brought it home that our usage has changed. Next up for us, geothermal and grid tied solar. This started as a way to reduce gasoline costs, now we want to be completely energy self sufficient. We are so used to making payments every month, with gasoline and electric bill, i would rather make the payments for equipment.

[murphy]

My electric bill for October was $7.08.  That's the fixed monthly charge.  My grid tied solar electric system covered all of my usage and I banked 1 kWh for future use.

Based on the power that I actually used my cost per kWh, ignoring the cost of the system, was $0.00816.

 

And before anyone asks I don't care what the break even point is.  I look at it as an improvement to the house, similar to installing a swimming pool, that will raise the value of the house.

[Wadeskees]

Murphy, how large is your pv system?

[murphy]

Murphy, how large is your pv system?

10 kW consisting of 40 panels of 250 watts each.  Each panel has its own microinverter.  Those are the DC ratings for the panels.  Maximum AC production will probably never exceed 8 kW.

 

Here is a real time (actually 15 minutes earlier) look at the system.

 

https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/pv/public_systems/r5Ns249308

[howardbc]

The size of the PV system depends on the size of your house and the amount of energy you use. I had a 3.4kWh system put on my roof in 2006 but it only covered about 1/4 of the electric bill. Now I will be adding a 7kWh system next year that should bring most of my bills down to zero except for taxes and fees. I should only have electric bills during the 3 hottest months here and they will still be low compared to what they normally are. 

 

If you're interested in solar panels, talk to at least 2-3 different companies (check them out on the Registrar of Contractors), plus get references. Be sure to ask about net metering. The electric company is trying to kill it here in Arizona.

 

I want to do something for the environment. The cost of charging my car is a very tiny part of my energy expenses. 

[Wadeskees]

I have been looking at Anapode Solar, they sell DIY kits using the same Enphase microinvertors. I only have roof area for a 5k system, just curious how that would compare. Most people I talk to about this, and the geothermal to reduce my consumption, think I have lost my mind.

[murphy]

There are many variables. 

What direction does the roof face?

What is the tilt angle of the roof?

What is your average monthly kWh value?

My usage for a year was slightly less than 10,000 kWh, divided by 12 that's 833 kWh per month.

Are there any trees that cast shadows on the roof?  I photographed my roof once an hour from sunrise to sunset prior to buying the system.

There is a 30% federal tax credit on the cost of the system.

Do they allow netmetering where you are?

I have three meters:  power in from PECO, power out to PECO, and total production of the panels.

 

Don't worry about what other people think.

[frbill]

10 kW consisting of 40 panels of 250 watts each.  Each panel has its own microinverter.  Those are the DC ratings for the panels.  Maximum AC production will probably never exceed 8 kW.

 

Here is a real time (actually 15 minutes earlier) look at the system.

 

https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/pv/public_systems/r5Ns249308

Murphy, thank you so much for sharing your info. I hope someday to get a similar rig, just have to save up to get something similar installed.

[Russael]

It's been on the books for me for many years... I fully intend on having a PV system installed once my place is paid for (about 6 1/2 years to go, unless I get some kind of massive raise at work).  I originally wanted the biggest system my service would allow, but I learned that they won't let you install larger than what you need.  Well, saving 100 bucks a month is better than paying it out. :)  I'll probably also go electric on some of my appliances, such as my hot water tank.  If I can heat it for free, may as well go that direction.  I'll keep my gas stove and furnace.  May swap my gas dryer for electric.  I'll have to wait and see how things go.

[TX NRG]

There are many variables. 

What direction does the roof face?

What is the tilt angle of the roof?

What is your average monthly kWh value?

My usage for a year was slightly less than 10,000 kWh, divided by 12 that's 833 kWh per month.

Are there any trees that cast shadows on the roof?  I photographed my roof once an hour from sunrise to sunset prior to buying the system.

There is a 30% federal tax credit on the cost of the system.

Do they allow netmetering where you are?

I have three meters:  power in from PECO, power out to PECO, and total production of the panels.

 

Don't worry about what other people think.

All good points. Another important consideration for your power generation and ROI calculations is how much solar radiation do you have on average at your location. A PA system might need to be 2-3 times as large as one in AZ to generate the same power due to variations in average solar radiation reaching the surface. Check out this map which shows the differences.

 

http://photonicswiki.org/images/archive/6/6a/20090611201514%21Direct_normal_solar_radiation_2004.jpg

[FusionDad]

I went with solar grid-tied panels in late 2007, and added ground-sourced heat pump (also but inaccurately called "geothermal" in January 2012.  Very satisfied with both - more so as the solar panels balance out the slight electrical usage increase of GSHP.  I now wish I was a large home-building company owner - I know what I would be installing in large house tracts to instantly differentiate my product from every other tract developer's product.  With economies of scale and (especially for GSHP) with the ease of rapidly pre-drilling house sites before all the fencing/landscaping is in place, the added cost per house would be a pittance.

[Wadeskees]

Merriam Webster - geo·ther·mal adjective \-ˈthər-məl\

: of, relating to, or using the natural heat produced inside the Earth; also : produced by such heat

 

It would be a significant reduction for us, natural gas is not available where we live and we currently heat with an electric resistance furnace.

Edited November 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM by Wadeskees