Overall Expected Long Term Battery Life

[Doc Rock]

Murphy,

 

Horsham, know it well. Lots of industrial parks. And, cigars!

[Vintre]

0% on the electric drive portion of the battery leaves about 1.5 kW for the hybrid portion.  The car will not let the hybrid portion go to zero.  I have charged my car to 100% every time I have charged it.  It is now 3.5 years old and I still get 21 miles of electric operation when it is warm outside.  Cold weather reduces the capacity of the battery.  Using the heater puts a dent in the range.  You can avoid the heater caused range loss if you wear a warm coat, use the seat heater, and the steering wheel heater if you have it.  My 2013 does not have the steering wheel heater.

 

Use GO a time to warm the car up before you leave in the morning.  It must be plugged in to do that and a 240 volt EVSE must be used for it to be of much use. 

The "charger" that Ford supplies is properly called Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE).  The charger is built into the car.

 

120 volts times 12 amps = 1440 va.

240 volts times 16 amps = 3840 va.

If the power factor of the charger is close to 1, I have not measured it, then 3840 va is 3840 watts.

 

Get a 240 volt EVSE if at all possible.  It will charge the battery in slightly over two hours.  It takes over 5 hours with the 120 volt EVSE.

 

All of my trips are less than 20 miles.  My engine does not run at all in the summertime.

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

I'm glad to hear that I can never go to 0% on the battery. Since I will be using the entire charge 2x a day, I was worried about early degredation.  That is charging to 100% and using all the charge 2x a day.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have the 240V charger.  I will have to rely on the 120v for now.

 

Thanks again and Im looking forward to the FFE and being a part of this forum.

 

Vin

[murphy]

I have nothing to base the following on other than the way I would design it.

 

I doubt that a 100% charge is actually a 100% charge for the battery cells.  The battery is supposed to last for the life of the car.  Ford did not provide a way to charge to less than 100% automatically.  If I had designed this system a 100% charge would actually be a 90% charge for the battery cells.  I have plotted the charge current for the battery and the ramp down in current as it nears 100% is way too fast to guarantee that overcharging can't happen.  My take from that is that 100% is not really 100%. 

 

Enjoy your car.  My engine has started about 3 times since last March.

[Vintre]

I have nothing to base the following on other than the way I would design it.

 

I doubt that a 100% charge is actually a 100% charge for the battery cells.  The battery is supposed to last for the life of the car.  Ford did not provide a way to charge to less than 100% automatically.  If I had designed this system a 100% charge would actually be a 90% charge for the battery cells.  I have plotted the charge current for the battery and the ramp down in current as it nears 100% is way too fast to guarantee that overcharging can't happen.  My take from that is that 100% is not really 100%. 

 

Enjoy your car.  My engine has started about 3 times since last March.

Thank you!

 

I pick up the car in 4 hours!

 

Vin

[Doc Rock]

I have nothing to base the following on other than the way I would design it.

 

I doubt that a 100% charge is actually a 100% charge for the battery cells.  The battery is supposed to last for the life of the car.  Ford did not provide a way to charge to less than 100% automatically.  If I had designed this system a 100% charge would actually be a 90% charge for the battery cells.  I have plotted the charge current for the battery and the ramp down in current as it nears 100% is way too fast to guarantee that overcharging can't happen.  My take from that is that 100% is not really 100%. 

 

Enjoy your car.  My engine has started about 3 times since last March.

 

One thing I have noticed (using the OEM 120V Charger) is that when the battery level reads 99% on my iPhone MFM App, the blue lights extinguish. But, the charger usually pumps another 0.5 kWh before the charger shuts off. Is that extra juice going into the hybrid battery?

[JATR4]

One thing I have noticed (using the OEM 120V Charger) is that when the battery level reads 99% on my iPhone MFM App, the blue lights extinguish. But, the charger usually pumps another 0.5 kWh before the charger shuts off. Is that extra juice going into the hybrid battery?

There is no hybrid battery.  Probably charging the 12 volt battery after the big battery is finished charging.

[murphy]

Yes, when charging of the HVB is done it will charge the 12 volt battery if it needs it.  Usually only happens on a car that is not driven every day.

[cwstnsko]

Hello All,

 

1st post!

 

I will be picking up my new 2017 Engeri on Monday and am excited!

 

I understand that a full charge will get me 22 miles.

 

My commute to work is 28 miles.

 

I live in Southern Ontario Canada where we have 4 distinct seasons.

 

Since my commute is longer than the battery capacity, I will be charging to 100 % and draining to 0% twice a day.

 

Am I in for a drastically shortened battery capacity because of this cylce?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Sincerely,

 

Vin

Vin, I am in Winnipeg, so slightly different climate, but I do charge my 2015 C-Max Energi to 100% twice a day, and after 17 months and 26k kms, I still get about 5.6 kWh of energy from the battery on a trip that fully depletes the battery to hybrid mode.  That is basically the same as what I got when the car was brand new. 

 

Do you have 240V charging at work, or are you bringing your 120V EVSE to work?

 

Some things to avoid for best battery life are 1) Leaving the car sitting at 100% charge when it is hot.  2) Charging the car while the battery is hot.  3) Rapid acceleration followed by hard braking (normal driving for most Winnipeg drivers) 4) Rapidly discharging/charging the battery by driving at high speeds on Electric, Climbing big hills on Electric, using regen aggressively to recharge the battery while descending large hills, etc.  

 

Some things should that help battery life are: 1) Keeping it cool, park in the shade when possible.  2) Switching to EV Later when driving at higher speeds.

 

To minimize charging a hot battery and the time my car spends sitting at 100% charge in the heat, I set up a value charge profile for home and work and use go-times to control when my car charges.  I charge overnight on 120V, mainly after 1 AM after the battery has had a chance to cool down.  At work, I charge on 208/240V and set it to charge so it finishes just before I am scheduled to leave.  Ironically, this same behavior works to keep some warmth in the battery to reduce capacity losses during cold weather. I keep the car plugged in at work and at home at all times so the cooling fans are able to do what they can to minimize heat build-up.  During warmer/hot months, I try to leave the rear windows rolled down a bit to keep the interior from heating up too much and transferring that heat into the battery

[Vintre]

Vin, I am in Winnipeg, so slightly different climate, but I do charge my 2015 C-Max Energi to 100% twice a day, and after 17 months and 26k kms, I still get about 5.6 kWh of energy from the battery on a trip that fully depletes the battery to hybrid mode.  That is basically the same as what I got when the car was brand new. 

 

Do you have 240V charging at work, or are you bringing your 120V EVSE to work?

 

Some things to avoid for best battery life are 1) Leaving the car sitting at 100% charge when it is hot.  2) Charging the car while the battery is hot.  3) Rapid acceleration followed by hard braking (normal driving for most Winnipeg drivers) 4) Rapidly discharging/charging the battery by driving at high speeds on Electric, Climbing big hills on Electric, using regen aggressively to recharge the battery while descending large hills, etc.  

 

Some things should that help battery life are: 1) Keeping it cool, park in the shade when possible.  2) Switching to EV Later when driving at higher speeds.

 

To minimize charging a hot battery and the time my car spends sitting at 100% charge in the heat, I set up a value charge profile for home and work and use go-times to control when my car charges.  I charge overnight on 120V, mainly after 1 AM after the battery has had a chance to cool down.  At work, I charge on 208/240V and set it to charge so it finishes just before I am scheduled to leave.  Ironically, this same behavior works to keep some warmth in the battery to reduce capacity losses during cold weather. I keep the car plugged in at work and at home at all times so the cooling fans are able to do what they can to minimize heat build-up.  During warmer/hot months, I try to leave the rear windows rolled down a bit to keep the interior from heating up too much and transferring that heat into the battery

 

Thanks for the great reply.

 

I charge at home with the 120V and at work with 240V.

 

Im fortunate to park underground at work so in the summer car isnt too hot and in the winter its not too cold.

 

I do park outside at home though.

 

Since it is getting a bit cooler here, I am trying the GO time feature but unfortunately, wresting with that right now (another thread on that).  

 

Do you use your 120V charger with the GO time and does it work, heating the cabin up?

 

Thanks again to all who replied and this community.

 

Vin

[cwstnsko]

I do use the 120V EVSE with Go-times at home, but I park in an unheated garage at home, so not the exact same circumstances.  When it's quite cold, the 120V EVSE cannot achieve the chosen temperature, but it does take the edge off, and it does heat up the coolant in the heating system so that I get heat much quicker once I start the car.  I do keep the climate control set to 16.5 when it is below -10C to try and preserve a bit of EV range rather then just dumping all my battery into the heater trying to maintain the cabin at 22.  Since I park in the garage at home, I don't know how well the 120V EVSE will work to clear the windows on frosty mornings.

 

I park outside at work and the 208/240V EVSE there will warm up the car beautifully, even on the coldest days. I set my Go-time to 29C and enjoy climbing into a very warm car. I didn't have to scrape a window all winter last year :-)  Unless there is a lot of heavy snow, it will usually melt the snow off the windows as well, or at least loosen it up so I can quickly knock it off with my brush.

 

For my commuting, the preconditioning makes it so that was able to use a light jacket and light gloves to go to and from work.  I carry my Sorels, Parka and Mitts in the back of the car for emergencies.

 

Another note on Go-times.  I find it to be ideal to set the go-time for about 10-15 minute before the time I actually plan to leave. That is about how long the car will keep the car warm before turning off. This gives the 120V EVSE a little more time to try its best to make a dent in the cold.

[Fazdarx8]

Reviving a old thread

 

I am currently getting about 16 miles on the dash, about 13 miles real world (highway) 

car shows 3.8kwh for depletion you guys are all lucky with the 17-22miles

car is 88000 miles and 2013

[Kaleido]

2017 and I currently get about 15 miles from a full charge. I have 7000 miles on the car

[mikieg]

I'd like to revive this old post. I have a 2014 Energi and for the first 2.5 years I was consistently seeing 22 miles per charge. About a year and a half ago, practically overnight, it went down to 18 and no matter how conservatively I drove it, I just couldn't get more than 17 to 18 miles out of a charge. At that time I brought the car in and all the service department would do is tell me "it's your driving habit that changed", which was not only insulting but simply not true.

 

Fast forward another year and I'm now seeing 13 miles per charge (almost a 50% reduction). The dealer still insists that it's my driving habit, which it isn't because I like to challenge myself by seeing how far I can get on a charge and when it says 13, it means 13. This past weekend I drove to work with the A/C off for 95% of the time (and I live in the Miami area), I accelerated so slowly that people behind me were honking at me, I limited my highway speed to no more than 62 and took my foot off the accelerator well before a stop light and just coasted in. Nada, I couldn't get more than 13 to 14 miles out of it.  Also, during the first two years of ownership I made it to work and the display consistently showed that I still had 2 miles of EV range. Now the battery is depleted 5 miles before reaching my office, when it switches over to gas. Thinking that perhaps the 240v charger was at fault, I went back to the 110 charger but got the same results. At this time I have 39,000 miles on it.

 

Any ideas on what to check and how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.

Edited July 9, 2018 at 05:02 PM by mikieg

[murphy]

Try not going above 45 mph in EV Now mode.  High speed drains the battery in a hurry in EV Now mode.  The air drag increases with the square of the velocity (speed).  Use EV Now for driving through town.  Use EV Later for highway use.  A/C will reduce the range but not as much as heat will in the wintertime where I live in SE PA.  This morning mine said I had 24 miles available.  In the wintertime I am lucky if I get 10.

[jasper7821]

My range after charge has also changed quite a bit in the last few days. I'm only getting 4.5kw from the battery and it's been like that for the last several months.

After charging it usually says anywhere from 19-22 miles. But in the last few days it's been saying 16 miles.

But I am getting more out of it then it says.

I did a test this morning and I got 27.1 total EV and 2.6 from Regen.

My commute is 32.3 miles to work and it's 10 miles street and then 18 miles freeway, then 4 miles on a long straight road.

The engine kicked in at 4.7kw and 24.1 miles EV.

I usually drive about 45-50 on the street before the freeway and I was getting 5.5 miles per kw. And on the freeway I drove really slow to see what I get at 60mph and I was getting 5 miles per kw. The car did really good today in the middle of the desert. It's stormy so the temp was only 78f and I had the AC off.

Yesterday I also tested on the freeway and I was getting 4 miles per kw at 70mph (no AC)

[jj2me]

Just for information, the kWh on Trip 2 (or Trip 1) includes accessories use.

 

I know this because I took a 400-mile trip on almost all EV-Later, and the total shown on Trip 2 kWh was 0.4 kWh, which breaks down to 0.3 when I turned on the defroster for a bit, plus 0.1 when I started up driving one time forgetting to immediately move from EV to EV-Later.

Edited July 11, 2018 at 07:49 PM by jj2me

[mikieg]

My range after charge has also changed quite a bit in the last few days. I'm only getting 4.5kw from the battery and it's been like that for the last several months.

After charging it usually says anywhere from 19-22 miles. But in the last few days it's been saying 16 miles.

But I am getting more out of it then it says.

I did a test this morning and I got 27.1 total EV and 2.6 from Regen.

My commute is 32.3 miles to work and it's 10 miles street and then 18 miles freeway, then 4 miles on a long straight road.

The engine kicked in at 4.7kw and 24.1 miles EV.

I usually drive about 45-50 on the street before the freeway and I was getting 5.5 miles per kw. And on the freeway I drove really slow to see what I get at 60mph and I was getting 5 miles per kw. The car did really good today in the middle of the desert. It's stormy so the temp was only 78f and I had the AC off.

Yesterday I also tested on the freeway and I was getting 4 miles per kw at 70mph (no AC)

 

I'm looking incredulously at your numbers. I have never seen anything near 27 miles per charge.

[jsamp]

I'm looking incredulously at your numbers. I have never seen anything near 27 miles per charge.

 

Depending on how good your battery is, 27 is doable.  Lots of low-speed city driving, no heat/AC, accelerating and braking gently can accomplish this.  You won't get this at 65-70 MPH.

[Davidoo]

I have a 2017.  Now that it is cooler in Phoenix, with no AC and flat city streets, mine showed 29 this morning going to work with a full charge.  The most I ever got on one charge was 33 miles under similar circumstances.  

[4cylinder]

I'm looking incredulously at your numbers. I have never seen anything near 27 miles per charge.

 

Pick a mild day (60-70F temps) and don't use the climate control (lower your windows!), and don't drive on freeways (ideally keep your speed at 45 mph max).

 

30 miles is very doable especially in stop-and-go traffic under those circumstances.

 

When it's super hot or super cold, or you drive above 50 mph, range drops considerably.

[jsamp]

I got 28.5 miles today, only using the charge portion of the HVB (no hybrid mode).  Some city, mostly country backroads.  All at or under 50MPH.

[4cylinder]

I got 28.5 miles today, only using the charge portion of the HVB (no hybrid mode).  Some city, mostly country backroads.  All at or under 50MPH.

 

Ah the joys of living in CA. I spent a year there for grad school (moved out in mid 2017) but at the time I was driving a V8 Lexus LS430 (long story...). If I were still living there my Energi would probably get me 30 miles or better because I drive like a grandma.

 

Right now in MI winter has truly come (technically fall but it's winter by CA standards) and my range has dropped to 20 miles.

Edited November 5, 2018 at 05:45 PM by 4cylinder

[Davidoo]

Took this photo when I started up in my garage this morning.  Finally cooled down to 60 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon here in Phoenix, so driving with no A/C, flat roads and no freeways bumps up the mileage substantially.  I think the highest I've ever seen this is 33, but 30 ain't bad!

[Pg3ibew]

I find my electric range is directly proportional to the weather. In NYC, we see temps go as high as the mid 90s and as low as single digits. And the hotter it is, the more Electric I get. As high as 33 miles per charge. The colder it gets, the less electric I get. Friday, the temps were in the low teens. I got 14 miles on the charge. I have not seen much, if anything in the way of battery degradation. 

I have a 2017. 2 years 1 month. 20k miles on it.

[mikieg]

Continuing with this thread, I'm down to 10 miles per charge with 35,000 miles on the car. Once again I brought it to the dealer and they responded "normal degradation" and pointed to the cashier where I had to pay my $140 diagnostic charge since the car is out of warranty.

 

While I love the car, I could never recommend the Energi based on my experience.