AVERAGE Range on a Full Charge

[markb]

I'll admit to becoming obsessive about keeping the three bars on the coaching screen as close to 100% as possible.  I've also figured out that gently pressing the brake pedal on downhill driving segments (particularly when you're going to have to stop at the bottom anyway) seems to generate a lot of energy because my estimated range often goes up a mile when I do it.  The result is that the estimate of my range on a full charge keeps creeping up and has now reached 28 miles.  This seems to track with the actual distances I get in around town driving (the only driving I've done since I got the car).  I'm wondering what others are experiencing and if  AVERAGE estimated range can go still higher so I've posted this poll to find out.

Edited September 15, 2013 at 05:22 PM by markb

[jeff_h]

I voted 24 as that is about the average... sometimes it's 21, sometimes 27-28 when the recent history has been really good (I think the recent history is factor, among other things along with the HVAC usage, of course),,, so maybe the poll would be more accurate to ask what is your average range on a full charge.

[dlb92]

I agree my average range is around  24-26.  If I drive as slow as a turtle and without the AC in the blistering heat I can get 31.  It all depends on where you are driving as well.

[markb]

Sorry about that.  The type of driving I have done has been pretty consistent.  What's changed is that I've learned how to drive efficiently so I've basically seen a monotonic increase.  I've changed it to average.

Edited September 15, 2013 at 05:23 PM by markb

[Depauwler]

I usually get 30 (or rather, it claims 30), but I lowered it to 26 to include the times I used the A/C.  I'm curious to see what happens this winter.

[markb]

With my last car I used to drive all the time with auto climate control on.  Now that I see the actual energy cost I've found that on mild days lowering the windows and opening the sun roof do just fine!  You question about winter is something I was wondering about too.  How does it heat things up in the winter?  Answer here http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/846-lets-talk-about-the-winter/ on this board.

Edited September 15, 2013 at 06:57 PM by markb

[howardbc]

I got 44 EV miles during one day's series of trips. I don't check it every day. But if I drive just 25-30 miles one day, it only shows an average of 18-22 EV miles. I am pretty good about how I brake and often get 90-100% on my braking score. So I can definitely see how smart braking can add to the EV miles even after the main HV battery is depleted. 

 

I keep the "Status" display on the screen almost all the time. When the HV battery is depleted and it is supposed to go into hybrid mode, it seems that I see "Electric mode" or "HV battery charging" more often than "Hybrid mode." Has anyone else noticed this? 

[dlb92]

I believe the AC lowers mileage insignificantly when you are using gas in any car. I noticed no difference in MPG  in my Honda civic when I blasted it full blast when it was 100 degrees outside versus winter when I didnt' use it at all.

Edited September 16, 2013 at 01:48 AM by dlb92

[Russael]

I've tested A/C on and off on my trips to Baltimore, and I see about a 2.5MPG decrease while using it... and with an SUV that barely gets 19 highway, dropping that to 16.5 to 17 hurts.  I've noticed this in EVERY car I've driven, and I'm a conservative driver who typically exceeds EPA estimates (for summertime driving).  If it gets to high 90's then yeah, I'll run the air conditioner, but high 80's for me are tolerable.

 

For the poll, I voted 30.  That is what I was getting for estimates all the time, after every charge, up until a week ago when I made some driving adjustments, and it's now giving me 33.  It won't be there for long, especially once I start running the heater.

[Scott Tran]

Only had mine for less than a week now so I voted under 19, but I just learned that the car is still learning my habits, etc...  The problem is that I live in Houston so its still hot/humid here and the ac is always running.

[dlb92]

Then again maybe when I was getting 40mpg in my civic it was winter and I wasn't using the AC.

 

http://brokensecrets.com/2010/08/10/air-conditioning-affects-gas-mileage/

 

Jason Toews from GasBuddy.com found at speeds above 45 mph (70 km/h), “wind drag becomes an issue.” He says, “Drive at speeds over 55 mph with windows down and you’ll decrease fuel economy by up to 20 percent or greater.”

 

Myth Busters has also looked at this issue on a couple occasions. The first time around, their methodology was flawed, so they tried it a second time. The second time, they came to the same conclusion as Consumer Reports and GasBuddy, that windows down are more efficient than running the air conditioner at speeds less than 45-55 mph (70-90 km/h) and the drag at higher speeds makes the air conditioner the more efficient option.

[Russael]

When I drive to Baltimore, I do it at 65MPH with the windows down.  Tried it one year with A/C the whole way and it definitely used a lot more fuel.  And that's been the same for every car I've driven.  I do NOT understand how they come up with that conclusion about using the A/C at speeds above 55.  The only benefit I personally see is significantly lessened road noise and if it's lava hot outside, it's definitely more comfortable.  Maybe the Fusion will be more efficient with the A/C, but I haven't taken it on any trips yet.  So far, it's just been my commute to work car.

 

In the wintertime, fuel economy is reduced since it requires more fuel when it's cold outside, so if you were comparing winter driving with summer and A/C driving, you may not have seen a difference.

[Depauwler]

The Mythbusters tackled that.  Not scientific, I know, but two identical vehicles, identical loads, identical conditions, drivers doing the same (on a test course, so no traffic) and identical amounts of gasoline added.  Over 55, the vehicle with the windows down ran dry well before the other, IIRC.

 

Now this was a while ago, and I think they were SUVs.  Maybe it's not as bad now.  But I still do it to lessen the amount of wind whipping through the car and the noise.  I'm trying to balance efficiency with comfort.  Otherwise, for example at home, I would strip down in the summer and never turn the A/C on and bundle up in the winter and never use the heat.

 

But anyway...  There is definitely a certain point at which it's better to use the A/C.  The A/C's going to require the same amount of energy regardless, but with your open windows will cause more and more resistance the faster you go.  The thing is, I imagine it's different from vehicle to vehicle and newer ones may be better; 55 is just a rule of thumb.

[Russael]

I saw both episodes, and interestingly enough, I think they used Expeditions (which I have, but the ones they used were newer).  I don't know... maybe it's just my particular model or it just happens to be all the cars I've owned.  I think the Fusion would do a lot better since it has a variable speed compressor, which can really reduce the amount of energy consumed to keep the temperature balanced.  The old clutch compressors were either on or off, and only varied in speed depending on how many RPMs the engine itself was turning.

 

One friend of mine religiously uses the A/C in her car (she has a 2012 Focus) and she usually averages greater than 35MPG and a lot of her commute is highway travel.  But she doesn't drive for efficiency either. :)

[shaggy314]

Only recently has it been below 80 for my drive to work so I get about 18+ whatever I regen.

 

Since I have a sunroof, I have the best of both options, I rear tilt the roof, then crack the passenger rear about 1/2" or less, the resulting vortex is nice and cooling with barely a window open. Seriously, more than 1/2" and it's a roar so I keep it as closed as possible and it's is lovely.

 

EDIT: Now with the A/C off, I'm getting 21+ regen; I'm tracking that a/c kills 3-4 miles of battery.

Edited September 23, 2013 at 08:07 PM by shaggy314

[meyersnole]

I answered for what I have been getting recently... not tracking it enough to know my true avg. I have been using the AC at least one of the directions which keeps me in the 20 range. Even if I don't use the AC, to get anything north of 24 I think I would need to be really lucky with the lights, and stay well below the speed limit on the section of road where the limit jumps to 55. If I don't run the AC and I go about 60 (keep with the flow of traffic) I hit about 22 miles all EV.

 

I am real impressed with some of these 26 and higher ranges. Outside of my trip in the mountains (where I hit 40) I only see 24/25 on the estimates... just don't really get those miles (unless you are also counting the miles on EV after you start burning fuel... then my numbers go up).  

[Griff]

I answered for what I have been getting recently... not tracking it enough to know my true avg. I have been using the AC at least one of the directions which keeps me in the 20 range. Even if I don't use the AC, to get anything north of 24 I think I would need to be really lucky with the lights, and stay well below the speed limit on the section of road where the limit jumps to 55. If I don't run the AC and I go about 60 (keep with the flow of traffic) I hit about 22 miles all EV.

 

I am real impressed with some of these 26 and higher ranges. Outside of my trip in the mountains (where I hit 40) I only see 24/25 on the estimates... just don't really get those miles (unless you are also counting the miles on EV after you start burning fuel... then my numbers go up).  

I selected 26 miles for my average EV range. I can say that I get that distance by traveling in Auto mode. The first 2 miles are at speeds between 25-50mph with 2 stops. The following 24 are at 55mph with no stops. After that, I travel 8-10 miles depending on traffic avoidance decisions, in hybrid mode. At that point, I usually hit a lot of slower traffic (25-50mph) on the beltway. It is not uncommon for my summary to show 34 miles driven with 30+ EV miles. I get 80-90MPGe for the entire trip. This is why I don't use EV later unless I plan on spending a significant amount of driving time (10-15 miles) in one trip in an area with a crapton of red lights and stop signs. I'll take that live120+ MPGe reading on my gauge, while on the highway in Auto, over the 20-30MPGe reading of EV Later any day. 

 

Also, since I now drive like a well-seasoned octogenarian, my fuel gauge now shows 700+ miles when I fill up my gas tank.

[dlb92]

I have another couple months before I need to fill up for the first time but I'm sure mine will say over 700+ too.. I wonder what the highest possible number is..

[murphy]

They ran a hypermiling test on the 2010 Fusion Hybrid and got 1445.7 miles before the tank ran dry.

 

 

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/04/28/ford-fusion-hybrid-hypermiles-goes-1-445-miles-on-a-single-tank/

[dlb92]

So can someone elucidate how exactly they did this?  I'm sure in a non-hybrid car hypermiling can not double the MPG.

 

What was their average speed? 35mph?

[markb]

Looks like an almost perfect bell shaped curve centered around a 25-26 mile EV range.  Clearly we are careful drivers and Ford is being conservative with their 21 mile estimate.

Edited September 25, 2013 at 12:08 PM by markb

[Russael]

I think their 21 mile estimate is accurate for a couple reasons.  One, we're headed in to the winter months and I have no idea how that's going to impact battery range.  I also assume they estimated that range with climate usage in mind.  Secondly, I kind of wonder if they gave that 21 mile estimate based on what kind of range it'll give you over the lifetime of the battery pack.  I read somewhere that they expect to still have 80% of the capacity at 8 years or something like that, so my current 30 mile range will be 24.  With climate, it'll probably be 18.

 

They probably also estimated that range based on mixed street/highway driving too.  Some people, without finessing EV Later mode, will never see 21 miles on the battery pack.

 

I think the numbers are so much better because we've learned the BEST way to drive this car, and we stick to it. :)

[murphy]

My range estimate has settled at 28.

If I turn on the A/C it drops to 21.

The estimate on MFM is always ignoring climate.

The estimate in the car is based on how climate is currently configured.

[larryh]

Looks like an almost perfect bell shaped curve centered around a 25 mile EV range.  Clearly we are careful drivers and Ford is being conservative with their 21 mile estimate.

 

The EPA actually tested the C-MAX Energi rather than the Fusion Energi when computing the estimates.  The C-MAX is less aerodynamic than the Fusion.  Thus all the EPA numbers are "conservative" for the Fusion Energi. 

Edited September 20, 2013 at 01:21 PM by larryh

[meyersnole]

I selected 26 miles for my average EV range. I can say that I get that distance by traveling in Auto mode. The first 2 miles are at speeds between 25-50mph with 2 stops. The following 24 are at 55mph with no stops. After that, I travel 8-10 miles depending on traffic avoidance decisions, in hybrid mode. At that point, I usually hit a lot of slower traffic (25-50mph) on the beltway. It is not uncommon for my summary to show 34 miles driven with 30+ EV miles. I get 80-90MPGe for the entire trip. This is why I don't use EV later unless I plan on spending a significant amount of driving time (10-15 miles) in one trip in an area with a crapton of red lights and stop signs. I'll take that live120+ MPGe reading on my gauge, while on the highway in Auto, over the 20-30MPGe reading of EV Later any day. 

 

Also, since I now drive like a well-seasoned octogenarian, my fuel gauge now shows 700+ miles when I fill up my gas tank.

 

This makes much more sense to me. I live about 10.5 miles from work, and when I drop my wife off when carpooling its actually over 11. So I try make the whole trip on EV. If I can use the engine and capture some of that energy spent through regen then I could see myself north of 26 (like I mentioned above my record is 40, but that was in the mountains). I was just wondering how some of you were getting 26 on just the battery.