AVERAGE Range on a Full Charge

[Blastphemy]

Range is only quoted in miles because it gives a frame of reference for recovering ICEers. :D

 

As with all things in life, if you understand the system, you can use it in a way that maximizes performance. That said, the average driver who doesn't learn anything about it, stomps on the pedal, and runs the heat/AC all the time will get lower range from an EV

 

Recovering ICEers want their plug-in hybrid to drive like their ICE. When one has to drive in hot weather with the A/C off just go 20 miles on the battery or use the gas engine to accelerate up a hill at a reasonable rate, then the car has failed in its mission. The Volt and ELR don't have these limitations, and presumably the CT6 won't either. No idea if the plug-in Prius refresh will have the same issues as the original model, which are similar to Ford's shortcomings.

Edited April 3, 2016 at 07:41 AM by Blastphemy

[flyingcheesehead]

Recovering ICEers want their plug-in hybrid to drive like their ICE. When one has to drive in hot weather with the A/C off just go 20 miles on the battery or use the gas engine to accelerate up a hill at a reasonable rate, then the car has failed in its mission. The Volt and ELR don't have these limitations, and presumably the CT6 won't either. No idea if the plug-in Prius refresh will have the same issues as the original model, which are similar to Ford's shortcomings.

 

 

That's not true... If they use the same size motor for the same size car, it'll give the same acceleration. I don't know what you define as "reasonable" but I have no problem accelerating up a large, steep hill near my house without the ICE at the 3rd bar on the Empower screen.

 

If you use a bigger motor to get better performance, you'll get worse range unless you also increase the size of the battery. That's why the P-model Teslas all have shorter range than the equivalent non-P models.

 

Ford is not the only automaker that is subject to the laws of physics. ;)

[Blastphemy]

Obviously, then, the Volt and ELR use a better electric motor than the Fusion Energi, because those vehicles are much more powerful (and never need to use gas as long as the battery still has some charge).

[stevedebi]

Obviously, then, the Volt and ELR use a better electric motor than the Fusion Energi, because those vehicles are much more powerful (and never need to use gas as long as the battery still has some charge).

Different technology. While the Chevy products can use the ICE at times, the cars are pure electric motors. Starting the ICE won't supply much power anyway. They do have a larger battery, which is why they can go harder before starting the ICE to recharge.

 

Quite different from a true dual mode PHEV.

[flyingcheesehead]

Obviously, then, the Volt and ELR use a better electric motor than the Fusion Energi, because those vehicles are much more powerful (and never need to use gas as long as the battery still has some charge).

 

Depends what you mean by "Better." The Fusion Energi uses an 88kW motor and a 141hp engine. The Volt uses a 111kW motor and an 84hp engine. Thus, yes, the Volt will have better acceleration in all-electric mode than the Fusion Energi.

 

They also use a battery with 150% more capacity to get 75% more range. 

 

The Energi is more efficient at using its battery but can use its engine to drive the car (series-parallel hybrid) when high performance is desired, whereas the Volt is a series hybrid and what you get out of the electric motor is all you get.

 

Neither is "better" they just made different trade-offs in the design process.

[stevedebi]

Depends what you mean by "Better." The Fusion Energi uses an 88kW motor and a 141hp engine. The Volt uses a 111kW motor and an 84hp engine. Thus, yes, the Volt will have better acceleration in all-electric mode than the Fusion Energi.

 

They also use a battery with 150% more capacity to get 75% more range. 

 

The Energi is more efficient at using its battery but can use its engine to drive the car (series-parallel hybrid) when high performance is desired, whereas the Volt is a series hybrid and what you get out of the electric motor is all you get.

 

Neither is "better" they just made different trade-offs in the design process.

The Volt can make some use of the ICE at higher speeds. It isn't well advertised, but they do have a small connection to the motor, for a bit more power. But it is nothing like the C-Max or Prius designs and cannot get as much out of the ICE.

[Fat Fusion]

Now that the weather is warm, I'm happy to report I'm getting exactly the same distance out of my batteries as last summer.  It's easy to tell since I can just barely make it home from work on the charge- just like last summer.  It's 11 miles of HWY at 65 (HWY 87 through San Jose has a fair amount of up and down to mess with efficiency) and about 7 miles of surface streets.  I drive too fast at 5:30am to make it to work on the juice, but I'm cool with that.  Silicon Valley traffic can be brutal.

 

45k on the car, and probably 60% or so is on the batteries.  I torture those batteries too.  Plug it right in on L2 in the hot afternoon sun after draining it almost completely.

[flyingcheesehead]

Now that the weather is warm, I'm happy to report I'm getting exactly the same distance out of my batteries as last summer.

 

I'm happy with the performance now that the weather is warming up, too. I even set a new record for EV range: 32.9 miles! That was at 76ºF... I even managed to get 31.2 miles at 55ºF!

 

I'm at a year and a half and about 17,500 miles, and I charge to full twice a day during the week. I'm at about 106 MPG average.

 

Still wish it was a Tesla.

Edited May 12, 2016 at 06:40 PM by flyingcheesehead

[mrbigh]

I'm happy with the performance now that the weather is warming up, too. I even set a new record for EV range: 32.9 miles! That was at 76ºF... I even managed to get 31.2 miles at 55ºF!

 

I'm at a year and a half and about 17,500 miles, and I charge to full twice a day during the week. I'm at about 106 MPG average.

 

Still wish it was a Tesla.

Well, you are driving like it was a Tesla tho........

[flyingcheesehead]

Well, you are driving like it was a Tesla tho........

 

 

No, I'm driving it like I'm a grandpa. LOL

 

I think I would drive a Tesla in a much less efficient manner, since it has a much bigger battery. I baby the Fusion 'cuz I don't like having the engine kick in!

[Vintre]

Hello All,

 

Just bought our 2017 FFE about a month ago.  Loving it.

 

I see on this thread that there is a poll but is there somewhere to see the results of the poll?

 

How many people are getting how many average miles?

 

So far, on a full range, on my daily commute, I am getting 19 miles or so.

 

Thanks,

 

Vin

[Timewellspent]

Hello All,

 

Just bought our 2017 FFE about a month ago.  Loving it.

 

I see on this thread that there is a poll but is there somewhere to see the results of the poll?

 

How many people are getting how many average miles?

 

So far, on a full range, on my daily commute, I am getting 19 miles or so.

 

Thanks,

 

Vin

 

Right next to the vote button is the show results button.

[murphy]

Given your location I will guess that you are running the heater.  Try a trip with a warm coat, heater off, seat heater on, and steering wheel heater on if you have it.

 

Don't run in EV Only mode on a freeway.  That uses the battery in a hurry.

 

I get 22 in the summer,  18 or 19 in the spring and fall, and 10 when it is below freezing.  Low temperatures won't hurt the battery but they do reduce its capacity.

 

If you have a 240 volt EVSE (charger) and use GO times to preheat the car it will be a little better.  GO time heating doesn't work very well with the 120 volt EVSE that comes with the car.  120 volts times 12 amps = 1440 watts.  240 volts times 16 amps = 3840 watts.

[Vintre]

Right next to the vote button is the show results button.

 

Didn't see that!  Thanks!

 

I see that most people are like me, and getting 19 or less.

 

Still happy.

 

Thanks,

 

Vin

[Vintre]

Given your location I will guess that you are running the heater.  Try a trip with a warm coat, heater off, seat heater on, and steering wheel heater on if you have it.

 

Don't run in EV Only mode on a freeway.  That uses the battery in a hurry.

 

I get 22 in the summer,  18 or 19 in the spring and fall, and 10 when it is below freezing.  Low temperatures won't hurt the battery but they do reduce its capacity.

 

If you have a 240 volt EVSE (charger) and use GO times to preheat the car it will be a little better.  GO time heating doesn't work very well with the 120 volt EVSE that comes with the car.  120 volts times 12 amps = 1440 watts.  240 volts times 16 amps = 3840 watts.

 

Yes, its getting cold up here.

 

I am using the seat heater, on low.  I have the temperature set to 68F and the fan on 1.  Wearing a coat.

 

I even drive around with no more than 1/4 tank of gas to minimize weight.

 

I only have the 120V charger and have learned that the go times dont work well with the 120V only.

 

While I am happy so far, I do hope the warmer months improve my mileage.  Everyone wants to save a buck!

 

Thanks everyone for their responses.

 

Sincerely,

 

Vin

[rbort]

Today I just did a trip 26 miles away, recharged, and came back.

 

No heater, climate off completely, just the jacket on with gloves in the car and both front windows cracked open about 5mm each.

I did over 41 km each way. 

 

Check out this thread with pictures here so I don't have to retype it.

 

I'll post pictures here in case you don't have an account there to see it.

 

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/6453-3-years-2-12-months-57400-miles-later-got-55kwh-out-tonight/

 

Outside temperature was 6c going there 3c coming back (42F / 37F)

 

-=>Raja.

Edited November 13, 2016 at 04:25 AM by rbort

[My14Energi]

I have plenty to post but i have been getting consistently 25 EV miles per trip

Edited November 13, 2016 at 07:54 PM by My14Energi

[Vintre]

The last post has made me question, "what is the definition of the poll"?

 

Is it, "what is your average range on a full charger on just EV?"

 

or

 

"what it  your average range on a full charge during a trip?"

 

On only EV, I am getting less than 19 miles, however, on my normal 27 mile commute, I will get 22EV miles.

 

So what is the definition of this poll?

 

Vin

[My14Energi]

The way i see it is there are so many factors that can affect the EV only driving and range that i focus on the consistency of the range shown and my overall mpg.

[rbort]

14 Energi,

 

You can't count 25 miles EV range when you use the engine.  The engine charges the battery and then is used again as EV miles so that is not correct.

 

You need to drive 100% EV to see what your real EV miles are.  If you were to drive with a dead HVB on the engine in hybrid mode you would still get EV miles in your trip, see what I mean?

 

Vintre, same goes here for your question, its just EV what the post is talking about.  Again, if you use the engine it will pad your EV miles range with additional EV miles.

 

Today I drove to Boston, 26 EV miles 100% EV.  That's different than 26 EV miles and using 0.58 gallons of gas to net 76 mpg.

 

See my link about it the Cmax forum, I updated that post with pictures.  You'll see I drove all that on 4.2kwh.  My range for the full battery would have been over 30 miles.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited November 14, 2016 at 06:31 AM by rbort

[My14Energi]

What i look for is consistency. I don't sweat specific details. I drive the exact same 44 mile route day after day. I drive as though its not an EV....a/c on (yep, still using a/c in Florida), highway speeds of 72-74 mph. I leave the house in EV and let it run empty. It switches over to gas almost the same spot everyday, right around 19 miles. Out of those 19 miles, 7 are at 45mpg and the remaining 12 miles are on the highway, again 72-74 mph. As long as i am seeing 25ish EV and 60-70 mpg daily then im happy. But if im driving 44 miles, and 19 are 100% EV, then the remaining 25 miles are netting about 6 EV/hybrid miles, which seems like a low % of hybrid ev, but at 72mph it doesn't switch to EV very much if any.

Edited November 14, 2016 at 04:44 PM by jeff_h

[rbort]

If you keep up that pace your battery will lose capacity rapidly within the next year, just word to the wise about that.  Driving in Auto on the highway at 72mph until the battery runs out is a bad thing, plus Florida heat and recharging while hot and battery hotter than necessary won't help either.

 

Soon I'll be in Florida, coming there for a couple of weeks vacation :)

 

-=>Raja.

Edited November 14, 2016 at 03:42 PM by rbort

[My14Energi]

If you keep up that pace your battery will lose capacity rapidly within the next year, just word to the wise about that. Driving in Auto on the highway at 72mph until the battery runs out is a bad thing, plus Florida heat and recharging while hot and battery hotter than necessary won't help either.

 

Soon I'll be in Florida, coming there for a couple of weeks vacation :)

 

-=>Raja.

Well hopefully the bumper to bumper until 48k will prove useful if thats the case. I have no problem being the pain-in-the-ass to Ford over a degraded battery. I have read the owners manual and it says nothing about no EV highway driving or charging a hot battery and i'll hold them to it. I'll live on the faith that Ford properly developed this car and the battery systems. And as far as the charging hot battery topic goes, if that were the case then any public charging station would be obsolete, because thats the point to drive until you need to charge which the battery would always be charging hot. Whats the point of driving somewhere only to not charge a hot battery. Nonsense to me. Also why and how would driving at highway speeds be a bad thing. Sure i might get less range but a PHEV with a 20 miles range is most likely getting drained daily. Is my cell phone battery going to go bad quicker if i discharge it faster daily playing music vs just sitting in standby? And this is coming from a guy who just upgraded my phone earlier this year from a Samsung S2 to the S7. So i am prone to making things last a good long time. I got a 48 month loan, 46 more payments and the Energi will be gone if i dont satisfy the urge earlier to give the new Fusion Sport a try. But if it takes a shit before then it'll be dealt with accordingly at that time. For now its enjoyment for me. Edited November 15, 2016 at 02:39 AM by My14Energi

[rbort]

Man oh man, you just said everything others have in the past in arguments to all the advice I've been giving.  You're following in their footsteps...someone please help this guy besides me!

 

-=>Raja.

[My14Energi]

No arguement here on my end. Its all not that big a deal to me. If im only getting 16 miles instead of 20....oh well. I have owned plenty of cars that i have taken way past 100k miles in the past and im positive the mpg at 120k miles was worse than when the car had 10k miles, and i dont blame the manufacturer. How is owning a battery operated EV that degrades any different? Its not. Anything mechanical will wear out over time/use. My automobile isnt any different. It has a lifespan.