murphy Posted September 1, 2013 at 04:50 PM Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 at 04:50 PM (edited) I have confirmed that the BXT-99R-390 battery is NOT an AGM battery. Sorry if I misled anyone with my misguided belief that the BXT-99R-390 was an AGM battery.I pulled the battery out of my car and shook it. I could hear the electrolyte sloshing around inside. I hooked it up to my 12 volt battery charger. The initial reading was 56% SOC. After a minute or so it jumped to 66% and then continued to climb in 1% increments. The car was charged with the 240 volt charger yesterday evening. So in about 12 hours it dropped to around 60% SOC with the car sitting idle in the garage.I decided to put a Bosch BXT-96R-590 in the car. This battery was purchased new in January. That required removing the battery tray and cutting the rear end out of the tray so the battery would slide down into the tray. That job is complete. The first thing I noticed was that the power ports did not turn off as soon as I opened the car door. They have always turned off immediately on opening the door with the little battery. The second thing I noticed was the voltage did not go to 14.4 volts when the car was put in run mode. The big battery will stay for a while but I would like to eventually replace it with an AGM battery. It will be easier to find one now that I have room for a 96R size battery.It's very disappointing that Ford chose to stick a small starter battery in the car instead of an AGM battery. They must not have let the car sit for several days during their testing. See post #5 in this thread for instructions to change the 12 volt battery. Edited September 2, 2013 at 01:46 PM by murphy Eric4539, Andre07, TX NRG and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre07 Posted September 2, 2013 at 05:54 AM Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 05:54 AM (edited) Thank you for taking the time to confirm what we have been suspecting for a few weeks now, that the 12 Battery being used on the Ford Hybrids is just an under powered Standard Lead Battery. I agree totally, that it is very disappointing that Ford did not use an AGM Battery, and with a higher Amp Hour Rating. I have been looking around locally for an AGM Battery with the dimensions you had posted in another thread but so far no luck. Only AGM Batteries I have seen so far are from Motor Master in Canada. They are rated at 700-800 A but are Group 78/34. I will keep looking since nothing is coming up with Google Searches as of yet. Optima and Odyssy Batteries are availabe in the USA but cannot find any of these in Canada. Sears and Kmart in the USA, handle Diehard AGM Batteries, so I will be dropping by the Sears Canada and other stores this week to see what they may be carrying and what the Batteries are rated at.. Can you please post the dimensions of the BXT-96R Battery and what type of Posts they have? I will report back if I should happen to find a AGM Battery that may fit Thanks again for the great work you are doing on this Site to help out all our Members. It is very much appreciated. Edited September 3, 2013 at 08:00 AM by Andre07 mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted September 2, 2013 at 09:38 AM Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 09:38 AM This table lists the sizes of most of the BCI Group codes. http://www.batteryweb.com/bci.cfm Andre07 and mmmhmmmm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted September 2, 2013 at 12:40 PM Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 12:40 PM Thanks for the chart. I simply plugged the dimensions in to Google and it only gave me 1 result after various attempts: http://www.myhypermart.com/uk/shop.php?c=Automotive&n=248878031&i=B0032O6J5G&x=Yuasa_Professional_063_Car_Battery It must be a brand new battery type and/or something that's extremely rare. I can find some AGM batteries however most of those are smaller physically than what's there, or a little too large. So far, only 1 dimension fits for AGMs (6.9" wide). I tried various searches such as 8.2 x 6.9 x 6.9, 8.20 x 6.90 x 6.90, 8.2" x 6.9" x 6.9", and 8.20" x 6.90" x 6.90". This also includes doing very specific searching such as enclosing those dimensions in quotes, such as "8.2 x 6.9 x 6.9". Nada. mmmhmmmm and Andre07 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted September 2, 2013 at 01:44 PM Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 01:44 PM (edited) If you try to replicate what I did, don't blame me if it doesn't work for you. You assume all responsibility for the modification to your car. I just did it for the second time today. This time I got a better fit.I had a Bosch BXT-96R-590 battery that I bought in January before I knew the car existed.It must be an "R" battery so the positive post is at the front of the car.I did it "hot" with another battery connected to the terminals under the hood.It is absolutely essential to completely insulate the positive battery cable, once it is removed from the old battery, to prevent it from touching any metal. If you are not comfortable working "hot" don't do it hot. Some functions of the car will have to be reprogrammed and the computer will have to relearn the ICE operating parameters if not done hot. Empty out the trunk so nothing is in your way.Remove the floor covering.There are two plastic pins in the plastic piece that runs across the back edge of the trunk. Pop both of them out.Pull straight up on the plastic piece and note the spring clips that hold it in place. Put it aside.Unscrew the plastic knob at the left bottom of the trunk. I assume it is the lower attachment for a cargo net.Unscrew the plastic piece at the upper left. It may be a cargo net knob or it it may be a simple piece of plastic.Remove the battery door.Find and remove the plastic pin that secures the battery area fiber panel to the upper left side of the trunk.Push forward on the fiber to lift it off the two bolts that the plastic knobs were on.Fold the fiber section toward the front of the car to reveal the battery.Remove the bolt that secures the battery wedge in place.All bolts and nuts in this area are metric sizes.Unplug the vent tube from the battery.Loosen the negative battery cable and remove it from the battery post.Lay it on the floor of the trunk.In the following step be absolutely certain that the wrench does not touch any metal parts of the car.Loosen the positive battery cable and remove it from the battery post.If you are working hot, insulate the battery cable so no part of the connector is visible.I wrapped it with copious amounts of cloth.Remove the nut that secures the two ends of the battery strap together and separate them.Lift the battery out of the car.Move the vent plug from the front of the old battery to the front of the new battery.The battery tray is held by three bolts.I removed the battery tray from the car and cut the rear end out of it. Two short vertical cuts and one long horizontal cut.The new battery now fits snugly into the tray. Test the fit before putting the tray back into the car.Bolt the modified tray into the car and install the battery.Connect the positive battery cable to the battery.Connect the negative battery cable to the battery.If working hot, disconnect the auxiliary battery.It is not possible to use the bolted wedge clamp to hold the battery.The strap that bolts together around the battery fits fine.Plug the existing vent tube into the rear vent of the new battery.Put the fiber wall and the plastic trim back in place.If this sounds complicated get help or don't try it. Edited September 2, 2013 at 01:48 PM by murphy Andre07, MKZ_Energi, meyersnole and 3 others 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre07 Posted September 2, 2013 at 05:06 PM Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 05:06 PM (edited) Thanks for the chart. I simply plugged the dimensions in to Google and it only gave me 1 result after various attempts: http://www.myhypermart.com/uk/shop.php?c=Automotive&n=248878031&i=B0032O6J5G&x=Yuasa_Professional_063_Car_Battery It must be a brand new battery type and/or something that's extremely rare. I can find some AGM batteries however most of those are smaller physically than what's there, or a little too large. So far, only 1 dimension fits for AGMs (6.9" wide). I tried various searches such as 8.2 x 6.9 x 6.9, 8.20 x 6.90 x 6.90, 8.2" x 6.9" x 6.9", and 8.20" x 6.90" x 6.90". This also includes doing very specific searching such as enclosing those dimensions in quotes, such as "8.2 x 6.9 x 6.9". Nada.This is very interesting and worthy of taking note The Battery you linked above, the YAB063 as is displayed on the site: Features:12V45Ah380CCASealed Calcium3 Years Warranty Now although this may or may not be very similar to the BXT-390R-390 the YAB063 indicates that it is rated 380 CCA but is rated at only 45Ah. Meaning that it can deliver 45 Amps for 1 hr then the SOC may go so low that it is not usable The BXT-99R-390 appears to have a CCA rating of 390, by the Model Name, so I wonder what the Ah rating is. I have a feeling it may be well under 300Ahs or so many ppl would not be reporting so many issues. As murphy has stated that after after removing the L2 charger and the 12V battery was fully charged that not 12 hours later the 12 Volt Battery had a SOC of only 60% with only the Computer, perhaps the "Call Home" running and calling as it pleases. I wonder how long the BXT-99R-390 would be able to sustain an 11V rating with a Load of say 45 Amps. This would be a good test to determine the Ah rating of this small Battery. Hopefully murphy will have a chance to run this test with say a 45 Amp Load (266 mΩ resistor) since he has a Voltage Plotting Meter. (Hint...Hint...murphy) Edited September 3, 2013 at 08:01 AM by Andre07 mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted September 2, 2013 at 06:41 PM Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 06:41 PM (edited) I wonder how long the BXT-99R-390 would be able to sustain an 11V rating with a Load of say 45 Amps. This would be a good test to determine the Ah rating of this small Battery. Hopefully murphy will have a chance to run this test with say a 45 Amp Load (266 kΩ resistor) since he has a Voltage Plotting Meter. (Hint...Hint...murphy)Your math is wrong. A 45 amp load at 12 volts would require a 0.26667 ohm resistor rated at 540 watts. I have a battery load tester that applies a 100 amp load for 10 seconds. To pass the battery voltage must remain above 11 volts for the entire 10 seconds. I don't know how close to 100 amps it is since I have no way to measure 100 amps. It uses a coil of wire that gets red hot in 10 seconds. Going much longer than 10 seconds would probably destroy the tester. This is it: http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7612-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B0009XQUJI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1378146853&sr=8-4&keywords=battery+load+tester Somewhere on either this forum or the Hybrid forum I posted a decay plot with a 15 ohm 10 watt load.If I can find it I'll add a link to this post. I found it. http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1190-bxt-99r-390-battery-discharge-plot/?do=findComment&comment=6268 Edited September 2, 2013 at 06:43 PM by murphy mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre07 Posted September 2, 2013 at 08:20 PM Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 08:20 PM (edited) Your math is wrong. A 45 amp load at 12 volts would require a 0.26667 ohm resistor rated at 540 watts. I was using 12.6 Volts, being the value of a Fully charge Battery. For determining the State of Charge of a Battery all Battery Manufacturers use Ah, Amp Hours, I believe. For 12 Volts then V=I.R so R=Volts/Amps R =12V/45Amp= 0.2666 Amps If a Battery is rated at 45Ah then it should draw 45 Amps for approximately 1 hour or less which is the Reserve Capacity using 12V then yes Watts = I.E = 45 A x 12 V = 540 watts which would be the Resister Power Rating required so that it does not glow red a Higher Wattage would be safest. Batteries are all rated by Amp hours and this is why I was asking that we try a test using a lower valued Restor so we can get a higher Current Draw. Hard to do the test properly without knowing how much Current the Car uses when it is Shut down and idle. If Ford had used a Battery with the Ah rating marked we would not have to go thru all this. I have a battery load tester that applies a 100 amp load for 10 seconds. To pass the battery voltage must remain above 11 volts for the entire 10 seconds. I don't know how close to 100 amps it is since I have no way to measure 100 amps. It uses a coil of wire that gets red hot in 10 seconds. Going much longer than 10 seconds would probably destroy the tester. I am familiar with the Tester and the test. It is a Current Cracking test to see how much of a Voltage drop occurs after 10 Seconds to simulate the current delivered to the Starter but it does not Measure the true Capacity of a Battery.. To figure out the Resister being used, try pressing the Test Switch and with a Multi Meter on the Ohms Scale you can mease the Resistor being used. So for a 12 Volt Battery reading 12V the Resistor would be around R=Volts/Current = 12V/100A = 0.12 Ohms This is it: http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7612-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B0009XQUJI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1378146853&sr=8-4&keywords=battery+load+tester I have a similar Tester but on mine I have 2 Positions, one like yours to do a CCA Test for 10 Seconds with a 100+ Amp draw and yes the Coiled Wire gets Red hHt, but on mine I have another Position on the switch which causes a 50 Draw and I keep it going for 2 Minutes before that coil gets Hot.. I also have a DC Amp Probe at my Disposal What I do not have is a Ford Fusion Energi nor Hybrid nor a BXT-99R-390 Battery to do the tests myself Somewhere on either this forum or the Hybrid forum I posted a decay plot with a 15 ohm 10 watt load.If I can find it I'll add a link to this post. I found it. http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1190-bxt-99r-390-battery-discharge-plot/?do=findComment&comment=6268 Yes I did see the Graph which was nicely done thank you From your Voltage/Time Graph it shows that for the 1st 2 hours it dropped 0.4 Volts from 12.2 to 11.8 Volts which is quite a steep discharge rate then tapers out to dropping about .02 Volts in 2 Hours when using a 15 ohm resistor which works out to I=V/R=12V / 15 Ohm = 0.8 Amps This is why I was asking that a lower Value Resister be used to simulate a 45 Amp Draw to see what Voltage the Battery would show after 1 Hour. If it drops to 8 Volts or less in 1 Hour then the Battery would be rated at around 45 Ah. Please understand that I am not questioning you but adding to your current findings so far, just hoping we can figure out what the Battery is really Rated at in Amp Hours Edited September 3, 2013 at 08:06 AM by Andre07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted September 2, 2013 at 10:30 PM Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 10:30 PM (edited) From the murphy's plot, the initial current was about 12.2/15 = 0.81 A and the final current was about 11/15 = 0.77 A. The average current over the plot was about 0.77A. The amount of charge drawn was then approximately 0.77 A * 28.4 H = 22 Ah. The voltage dropped about 2 V during this time period. So over another 28.4 H, it might drop another 2 V to less than 9 V. The average current during this time period would be approximately 0.66 A. So that would be another 0.66 A * 28.4 H = 19 Ah. So I am guessing the rating is more than 22 + 19 = 41 Ah if you are measuring down to 8 V. Edited September 2, 2013 at 10:32 PM by larryh Andre07 and mmmhmmmm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted September 2, 2013 at 11:03 PM Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 at 11:03 PM This is why I was asking that a lower Value Resister be used to simulate a 45 Amp Draw to see what Voltage the Battery would show after 1 Hour. If it drops to 8 Volts or less in 1 Hour then the Battery would be rated at around 45 Ah.A resistor capable of putting a 45 amp load on a battery is way beyond anything to which I have access. Andre07 and mmmhmmmm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre07 Posted September 3, 2013 at 08:28 AM Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 at 08:28 AM (edited) A resistor capable of putting a 45 amp load on a battery is way beyond anything to which I have access.Sorry, I forgot to suggest trying a Stove ring Element or a Stove Baking Element if you had any laying around. I recall using both when I was doing some testing and if memory serves me correctly they had a resistance of around 0.250 ohms and they did not turn red hot cause it is only a 12 Volt Source they just got very warm to the Touch. I clamped it to a Table Vice for my tests. (that was over 30 years ago!!!!!!) It was just a suggestion to see how the BXT-99R-390 display the Volt/time Graph when drawing a Higher Current cause I believe the rate of Discharge would be steeper than it was with the 15 Ohm Resistor. A 5 or 10 Amp draw should also work, just that it would take Longer to bring the Battery to a SOC to 0% which would be around 8 V. (actually at 1.2 volts/cell or 7.2V) a Battery is considered Dead. But realistically I believe any Voltage below 11V would render the Battery Useless on the Car as it may be too low to energize any relays. I did a bit more research and most Hybrid Manufacturers are using Batteries with a Reserve Capacity of 45 to 50 Amp. Since these Batteries are used solely for Lighting, Fans, Computers and Screen Monitors they do not need too high a Current Rating but should be large enough so that the Battery does not go dead with regular use. Most of these Batteries being used are rated at CCA of 550 to 600 A at 0'F and 500 to 550A at 32'F, but the Reserve Capacity ranged from 40 Ah to 45Ah Most of the ones I checked have a Reserve Capacity rating of 7.5 - 8.0% of the CCA. So if the BXT-99R-390 follows the same ratio than I would think that this battery would have a Reserve Capacity of (390A * 8.0%) no more than 32Ah with a fully charged battery with a SOC of 100% or 12.6V. Another way to determine the Capacity of a fully charged Battery is by using the Ah rating divided by 20 Hours For the BXT-99R-390 which if we assume to be rated at 390 Ah, and we are not 100% certain of this yet it would been that this battery could deliver up to 19.5A for 20 hours (390 / 20) But we do not know what the rating is and can only assume it is 390 Ah from the Model Hopefully if the BXT-96R-590 Battery indicate the Ah and the Reserve Capacity then we could get a better handle on the BXT-99R-390 Is there a Reserve Capacity value imprinted on the BXT-96R-590 Label by chance? If yes would it be around 45 Ah or 50Ah? Edited September 3, 2013 at 09:20 AM by Andre07 mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre07 Posted September 3, 2013 at 09:54 AM Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 at 09:54 AM (edited) From the murphy's plot, the initial current was about 12.2/15 = 0.81 A and the final current was about 11/15 = 0.77 A. The average current over the plot was about 0.77A. The amount of charge drawn was then approximately 0.77 A * 28.4 H = 22 Ah. The voltage dropped about 2 V during this time period. So over another 28.4 H, it might drop another 2 V to less than 9 V. The average current during this time period would be approximately 0.66 A. So that would be another 0.66 A * 28.4 H = 19 Ah. So I am guessing the rating is more than 22 + 19 = 41 Ah if you are measuring down to 8 V.Not sure that any relays can be energized with a Voltage under 11.0V I believe someone has mentioned that the Computer places the 12 Battery into Preservation Mode around that Voltage. So if 11.0 volts and higher is the value that the Battery is functional then the Currrent draw in the 28 hours of murphy's graph using a 15 ohm resistor the total current that was drawn would have been 21.735 Amps. Trying to post this Graph:. Hope it works, If it needs fixing up I will do it tomorrow, getting late. Using a 15 Ohm resistor as a constant Load Time Voltage Load Current Watts Amp/Interval .............Ohms...............................2 hrs 0.0 12.20 15 0.813 183.000 31 12.150 15 0.810 182.250 61 12.050 15 0.803 180.750 91 11.950 15 0.797 179.250 121 11.850 15 0.790 177.750 2.007 151 11.800 15 0.787 177.000 181 11.750 15 0.783 176.250 211 11.700 15 0.780 175.500 241 11.680 15 0.779 175.200 1.564 271 11.670 15 0.778 175.050 301 11.660 15 0.777 174.900 331 11.650 15 0.777 174.750 361 11.640 15 0.776 174.600 1.554 391 11.630 15 0.775 174.450 421 11.620 15 0.775 174.300 451 11.600 15 0.773 174.000 481 11.580 15 0.772 173.700 1.548 511 11.570 15 0.771 173.550 541 11.550 15 0.770 173.250 571 11.530 15 0.769 172.950 601 11.520 15 0.768 172.800 1.539 631 11.500 15 0.767 172.500 661 11.490 15 0.766 172.350 691 11.470 15 0.765 172.050 721 11.460 15 0.764 171.900 1.531 751 11.450 15 0.763 171.750 781 11.430 15 0.762 171.450 811 11.415 15 0.761 171.225 841 11.400 15 0.760 171.000 1.523 871 11.400 15 0.760 171.000 901 11.390 15 0.759 170.850 931 11.380 15 0.759 170.700 961 11.370 15 0.758 170.550 1.518 991 11.360 15 0.757 170.400 1021 11.350 15 0.757 170.250 1051 11.340 15 0.756 170.100 1081 11.330 15 0.755 169.950 1.513 1111 11.315 15 0.754 169.725 1141 11.300 15 0.753 169.500 1171 11.275 15 0.752 169.125 1201 11.260 15 0.751 168.900 1.505 1231 11.250 15 0.750 168.750 1261 11.225 15 0.748 168.375 1291 11.125 15 0.742 166.875 1321 11.200 15 0.747 168.000 1.493 1351 11.190 15 0.746 167.850 1381 11.185 15 0.746 167.775 1411 11.175 15 0.745 167.625 1441 11.160 15 0.744 167.400 1.490 1471 11.150 15 0.743 167.250 1501 11.100 15 0.740 166.500 1531 11.085 15 0.739 166.275 1561 11.075 15 0.738 166.125 1.480 1591 11.050 15 0.737 165.750 1621 11.000 15 0.733 165.000 1.470 27 Hrs .............. Avg 0.806 A ................. 21.735 Ah in 27 hours Edited September 3, 2013 at 09:56 AM by Andre07 mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted September 3, 2013 at 09:59 AM Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 at 09:59 AM (edited) Here are the specs for the Bosch BXT-96R-590 battery. Bosch Premium Performance Battery Group Size 96RPart # 96R590B SKU: 9929951Group Size 96RBCI # 96RVoltage 12Wet or Dry WetTerminal Type TRight Or Left Hand Positive RightCold Cranking Amps (CCA) @ 0F 590Cranking Amps @ 32F 710Reserve Capacity (minutes) 95Height (in.) 6.93Height (mm) 176.0Width (in.) 6.93Width (mm) 176.0Length (in.) 9.49Length (mm) 241.0Weight (lbs) 33.0 Reserve Capacity is defined as the number of minutes the battery will last with a 25 amp load. Edited September 3, 2013 at 10:01 AM by murphy Andre07 and mmmhmmmm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre07 Posted September 3, 2013 at 10:04 AM Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 at 10:04 AM (edited) Thanks murphy Sorry but Is the Reserve Capacity (minutes) 95 Amps or Minutes? Ok read your edit. Understood Thos BXT-96R-590 Reserve Capaticity is rate at being able to deliver 25Amps for 95 Minutes So compared to other batteries Capacity 700A / 20 hours = 56 Ah . This means that the BXT-99R-390 must have a lot lower Reserve Capacity and Cranking Amps, as you discovered when you replace the Battery. We are getting closer to getting actual values for the BXT-99R-390....... which are way lower that the 96R-590 Edited September 3, 2013 at 10:23 AM by Andre07 mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted September 3, 2013 at 02:37 PM Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 at 02:37 PM Here is an update on the "big" 12 volt battery.The 12 volt battery was fully charged when installed into the car.Two days later, with the car not being driven, the 12 volt battery was at 60% SOC.I made two 3 mile trips with a 1/2 hour stop in between.That brought the 12 volt battery up to 90% SOC.The power ports do not turn off immediately when the door is opened.They stay on for between 75 and 90 minutes before they shut off.That never happened with the small battery. Andre07 and mmmhmmmm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted September 16, 2013 at 04:05 PM Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 at 04:05 PM Update: It has been two weeks since I put the "big" battery into the car.There have been no battery saver messages and the power ports continue to be on for over an hour when I park the car. :) mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted September 22, 2013 at 02:09 PM Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 at 02:09 PM Three weeks on the "big" battery.No problems. The "little" battery, which is sitting on the garage floor, has not lost any of it's charge so it wasn't a self discharge problem. mmmhmmmm, TX NRG and FusionEnergi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted October 15, 2013 at 10:00 AM Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 at 10:00 AM Another update: It has been 6 weeks since I put the "big" battery into the car.There have been no battery saver messages and the power ports continue to stay powered for over an hour when the car is turned off.With the little battery the power ports turned off the instant the driver's door was opened. mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted October 15, 2013 at 10:54 AM Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 at 10:54 AM Very good. How many amp hours was that original battery rated at? Were you able to determine that? And how many Ah do you think the 590 battery has? Something that has caught my interest is a direct lead acid replacement, Lithium Iron batteries. They're about 1/3 the weight and can be used as starter batteries for small motors, such as lawn tractors or motorcycles. They have good cold cranking amps but seem to have a decently high Ah rating. The descriptions of that type of battery say that they can be used with established Lead Acid chargers, so long as they don't have a desulfate mode. They make them for computer UPSes as well as other things. They also state that these are far more stable, safe, and tolerant in comparison to Lithium Ion batteries. Only real disadvantage that I see with them is their initial cost, however, they also tout that they have a 10 year life expectancy. mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted October 15, 2013 at 12:36 PM Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 at 12:36 PM The specs for the big battery are in post 13.Apparently car batteries are no longer rated in AH. There is a new spec called Reserve Capacity. The definition is in post 13. Ford doesn't publish any specs for their battery so I have no idea what its ratings are. mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted October 15, 2013 at 01:09 PM Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 at 01:09 PM (edited) Hmmm. Well, the Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are physically smaller than even the 390 battery, but seem to offer 500 CCA (useless for this application, granted), and only weighs 5lbs. Issue is the 319 dollar pricetag. If my 12v battery gives me issues, I may consider this: http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/shorai-lithium-lfx36l3-bs12.html Edited October 15, 2013 at 01:17 PM by Russael mmmhmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmhmmmm Posted December 3, 2013 at 01:18 AM Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 at 01:18 AM I've read this topic and thought about how to address the wimpy BXT-99R-390. I found this deep cycle 99R-series. It's lead acid, but sounds like a brute. http://www.powerstridebattery.com/car-batteries-light-truck-batteries-van-batteries/bci-group-99r-odyssey-pc1200mjt-battery I considered the Shorai, but their FAQ->Cold Weather Performance Expectations don't give me a warm fuzzy. I'm not sold on it for the Energi, although these are excellent motorcycle batteries.http://shoraipower.com/faq In the end I ordered the D35 Optima Yellow Top from Amazon and plan to modify the battery tray (see post 5). I've used one in our Escape Hybrid for years without a problem. Every once in a while the price gets down to ~$135 on Amazon...unfortunately not the case right now.http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MSDKMA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&s=automotive#productDetails I'll try the wimpy little Motorcraft BXT-99R-390 in the lawn mower come Spring. If it fits thank you Ford for the lawn mower battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmhmmmm Posted December 5, 2013 at 04:27 AM Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 at 04:27 AM (edited) Turns out the wimpy Motorcraft BXT-99R-390 won't fit in my lawn mower. Does anybody want it? Local pickup only! I recycled it. I installed the Optima Yellow Top D35 mentioned in post 22 tonight using roughly the same procedure in post 5. I did the 'hot' install by using jumper cables to sustain the Energi and wrapped the live positive lead with copious cloth as recommended. That worked well and being careful paid off. Final notes:The Optima D35 almost fits in the battery tray, but still requires the back of the tray cut off. The Optima battery lacks a lip to lock into the front of the tray. The battery does have a large lip on each corner due to the curved shape of the cells. You might drill through this and bolt the battery to the tray to hold the front down. I put a bolt into the factory hole at the rear of the tray to keep the battery from sliding backwards, and fastened the strap over the top. The factory strap fits loosely over this battery; I had to drill a hole in the strap for a tighter fit. It's not going anywhere. I've never had the battery problems experienced by many here, and this should ensure against that. Thanks for the heads up! Edited February 23, 2014 at 09:00 PM by mmmhmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmhmmmm Posted February 7, 2014 at 03:02 AM Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 at 03:02 AM I had the trunk area back apart and got a few photos of the Optima Yellow Top D35. I haven't had a single problem with this battery. Time will tell - there are now 2 subs in the deck with an old school Rockford Fosgate Punch 100i amplifier consuming lots of power. That will definitely use the 12V battery. bwehry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted February 7, 2014 at 04:20 PM Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 at 04:20 PM (edited) The following plot shows the voltage of the 12 V battery when the car is started, but not charging the 12 V battery (that is not supposed to happen, but occurs because of an apparent software error when the car is plugged into a charger and the charger is turned off or not plugged in). At 9 Volts, MFM issued the notification that the 12 V battery is low. I didn't notice that the battery was not being charged until the voltage reached 6 V and things started to shut down. Edited February 7, 2014 at 04:33 PM by larryh mmmhmmmm and bwehry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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