Ford ESP (Extended Service Plan)

[Mjasim]

Question....I bought the 6 year 125k plan with $100 deductible, if I were to take my car in now(currently have 9k miles) for some warranty items would I have to pay the deductible or does that start after the initial 36k mile factory warranty? I know when I had my Infiniti the deductible didn't have to be paid until the 60k miles factory warranty was up. Thanks in advance.

[meyersnole]

Your factory warranty is in place, once it expires the ESP will kick in. 

[zeinoonm]

hey guys, i have a question...

 

Usually i don't buy Extended Warranties bec research shows they are not worth the money. But, my current 2014 FFE is being drive to work about 19000 miles a year. I already have 11k miles on it. I plan to keep it at least 5 to 7 years. What do you guys recommend?

Edited March 25, 2015 at 11:32 AM by jeff_h

[jeff_h]

hey guys, i have a question...

 

Usually i don't buy Extended Warranties bec research shows they are not worth the money. But, my current 2014 FFE is being drive to work about 19000 miles a year. I already have 11k miles on it. I plan to keep it at least 5 to 7 years. What do you guys recommend?

 

Holy cow look at this, someone who did a search on a topic and tacked on, rather than starting yet another new thread on extended warranties.... THANK YOU!

 

It all boils down to tolerance for risk and whether you want to plunk down a known amount of money now, or roll the dice and maybe plunk down a lot later, or maybe things go well and you end up saving a bunch -- bottom line is that it's a gamble, and if someone tells you that it is *always* worth it then they can look at the record of my last 100k warranty on my 2010 FFH where I paid about $800 (IIRC) and all that ended up needing service was an O2 sensor with total cost of $150 (and only other repaid since then was wheel bearing for $300 and the car will hit the 200k mark in April) so Ford won that round.  OR... if someone tells you that it is *never* worth it, my co-worker also had a 100K warranty on HIS 2010 FFH and had multiple issues (you'd swear the cars were not built on the same assembly line a month apart) and his service costs during the extended warranty period were over $5k.

 

So it's all about your tolerance for risk and what is in *your* best interests, as it's your money.

[zeinoonm]

hi Jeff,

Thanks for your response..

 

Now let me give you some more info. I am financially doing okay and a repair down the road won't break the bank.

 

My only worry is that i drive 20k miles a year and i will lose the warranty sometime next year when i hit 36k miles (well before the 3 years period). I'm thinking this car has LOTS of electronic components (adaptive cruise control etc..) and if one of those breaks the repair cost will negate any and all money i saved on gas from driving an electric vehicle.

 

On the other hand i do see your point about buying insurance. It's definitely a gamble. 

 

Now the 8 year/100000 mile warranty we get on the battery. Does that cover the battery only or the whole of the hybrid drivetrain etc... ?

 

As of now i'm leaning to just keep my $1380 it would cost me to by an ESP and hope for the best. What guides my decision is that i have put 11k miles on it so far with no problems at all. If i were to have some early defects/problems in the car they'd have shown up by now.

[stevedebi]

hi Jeff,

Thanks for your response..

 

Now let me give you some more info. I am financially doing okay and a repair down the road won't break the bank.

 

My only worry is that i drive 20k miles a year and i will lose the warranty sometime next year when i hit 36k miles (well before the 3 years period). I'm thinking this car has LOTS of electronic components (adaptive cruise control etc..) and if one of those breaks the repair cost will negate any and all money i saved on gas from driving an electric vehicle.

 

On the other hand i do see your point about buying insurance. It's definitely a gamble. 

 

Now the 8 year/100000 mile warranty we get on the battery. Does that cover the battery only or the whole of the hybrid drivetrain etc... ?

 

As of now i'm leaning to just keep my $1380 it would cost me to by an ESP and hope for the best. What guides my decision is that i have put 11k miles on it so far with no problems at all. If i were to have some early defects/problems in the car they'd have shown up by now.

It covers the hybrid specific components, including the drivetrain. But I think the drive train would have a longer warranty anyway.

 

FWIW, I plan to get the PremiumCare warranty at about 34K on mine. There are too many electronic components to go wrong.

 

One thing to note is that you will get rental coverage with the Premium Care warranties. You can also pay about 90 extra and get first day rental.

[immortal216]

If/When I decide to purchase i am going to opt for the ESP for a few reason some which i will not get into here but one of the major reasons is like everyone said the electronics of the car there are so many of them and with how sloppy programmers are there are sure to be a few bugs IMO i looked at the ESP from floor ford and would go with one of them if/when i make the jump 

 

Still waiting on the dealer to come down in price on the car they want $28,500 i want to pay $27,000 its a CPO that has every single feature

[stevedebi]

I bought it on the last three cars. One was a 2002 Civic; the insurance paid for itself with just two repairs. The second was a 2008 Escape Hybrid. That one also paid for itself due to a couple of expensive repairs after 36K. The third is a 2014 VW; that one is too new to know if it will work out.

 

The Ford Hybrid has some expensive parts that are used on the hybrid only (and yet don't come under the 8 or 10 year hybrid warranty). Check out what happens if the ABS braking system needs a replacement; I believe that is 4K. You can hear the braking system power up when you open the car; that is unique to the hybrid, since the brakes have to work when the ICE is off.

[murphy]

The brakes have to work in ALL cars when the engine is off.  There may not be any power assist but they still work with additional pressure on the brake pedal.

[stevedebi]

The brakes have to work in ALL cars when the engine is off.  There may not be any power assist but they still work with additional pressure on the brake pedal.

Well, however you wish to phrase it, there is no ICE to power up the braking system. In the Ford hybrid system, there will be no brakes at all unless that pump powers them up. Hence the car won't work if the system goes south. And it can be expensive to fix, which is the point of this post (and thread).

[openair]

As part of the 8 year hybrid warranty Ford lists the 'hybrid continuously variable transmission.'  A recent thread in the C-Max Energi forum by a user mitrals has uncovered this may be specific (or clever) word play by Ford.  Mitrals states that they are currently having a Ford dealership tell them that only the electronic 'hybrid' portion of this transmission is covered by this warranty.  A mechanical failure of the transmission is not covered by this 8 year hybrid warranty.

 

To determine if the failure is covered or not the dealership has stated it will cost Mitrals $1100 to tear down the transmission.  If it is determined the failure is covered by the hybrid warranty this $1100 will likely be covered as well.  If it is determined the failure is mechanical, and not covered by the hybrid warranty, the total bill to Mitrals to fix the transmission will be $8200 ($1100+$7100). 

 

The vehicle is a 2013 C-Max Energi with 70k miles btw.

Edited April 22, 2015 at 02:51 AM by openair

[lonzo71]

As part of the 8 year hybrid warranty Ford lists the 'hybrid continuously variable transmission.'  A recent thread in the C-Max Energi forum by a user mitrals has uncovered this may be specific (or clever) word play by Ford.  Mitrals states that they are currently having a Ford dealership tell them that only the electronic 'hybrid' portion of this transmission is covered by this warranty.  A mechanical failure of the transmission is not covered by this 8 year hybrid warranty.

 

To determine if the failure is covered or not the dealership has stated it will cost Mitrals $1100 to tear down the transmission.  If it is determined the failure is covered by the hybrid warranty this $1100 will likely be covered as well.  If it is determined the failure is mechanical, and not covered by the hybrid warranty, the total bill to Mitrals to fix the transmission will be $8200 ($1100+$7100). 

 

The vehicle is a 2013 C-Max Energi with 70k miles btw.

holy cow...If they have to pay 8200, I can see why people wont be buying a hybrid/plugin....

[Hybridbear]

As part of the 8 year hybrid warranty Ford lists the 'hybrid continuously variable transmission.'  A recent thread in the C-Max Energi forum by a user mitrals has uncovered this may be specific (or clever) word play by Ford.  Mitrals states that they are currently having a Ford dealership tell them that only the electronic 'hybrid' portion of this transmission is covered by this warranty.  A mechanical failure of the transmission is not covered by this 8 year hybrid warranty.

 

To determine if the failure is covered or not the dealership has stated it will cost Mitrals $1100 to tear down the transmission.  If it is determined the failure is covered by the hybrid warranty this $1100 will likely be covered as well.  If it is determined the failure is mechanical, and not covered by the hybrid warranty, the total bill to Mitrals to fix the transmission will be $8200 ($1100+$7100). 

 

The vehicle is a 2013 C-Max Energi with 70k miles btw.

Do you have a link to this thread? I'd like to read more of it. Has the owner contacted the Ford Service rep on the C-Max Energi Forum for assistance?

[openair]

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/3680-what-is-the-warranty-on-the-cvt-for-2013-energi/

 

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/3711-broken-transmission-at-70k-miles-ford-is-not-helping/

 

They have been speaking to ford corporate as well as reps here.

Edited April 22, 2015 at 06:33 PM by openair

[stevedebi]

As part of the 8 year hybrid warranty Ford lists the 'hybrid continuously variable transmission.'  A recent thread in the C-Max Energi forum by a user mitrals has uncovered this may be specific (or clever) word play by Ford.  Mitrals states that they are currently having a Ford dealership tell them that only the electronic 'hybrid' portion of this transmission is covered by this warranty.  A mechanical failure of the transmission is not covered by this 8 year hybrid warranty.

 

To determine if the failure is covered or not the dealership has stated it will cost Mitrals $1100 to tear down the transmission.  If it is determined the failure is covered by the hybrid warranty this $1100 will likely be covered as well.  If it is determined the failure is mechanical, and not covered by the hybrid warranty, the total bill to Mitrals to fix the transmission will be $8200 ($1100+$7100). 

 

The vehicle is a 2013 C-Max Energi with 70k miles btw.

I posted this over there as well, but I think this is baloney. The eCVT is specific to the hybird transmission, and that is required to be covered for the longer warranty by Federal standards in order for the car to be sold as a low emissions vehicle.

[openair]

I posted this over there as well, but I think this is baloney. The eCVT is specific to the hybird transmission, and that is required to be covered for the longer warranty by Federal standards in order for the car to be sold as a low emissions vehicle.

While I am Canadian, do not know the specifics of the law and agree this is baloney as far as the intent of the law, my understanding of the ecvt and this person experience with Ford and their vehicle suggests it does fit within the letter of the law.

 

Ford has stated to them that only electronic faults of the ecvt are covered. That only the e part of the ecvt is covered. This is because this is the only part of the transmission that is actually unique to hybrids. The rest of the ecvt, the cvt part is mechanically similar enough to cvts in conventional vehicles that it is not included in the letter of the law.

 

More recent posts in the first linked thread by other owners agree. The e of the ecvt is under the hybrid warranty. The rest of the cvt is part of the power train warranty.

Edited April 22, 2015 at 10:23 PM by openair

[stevedebi]

While I am Canadian, do not know the specifics of the law and agree this is baloney as far as the intent of the law, my understanding of the ecvt and this person experience with Ford and their vehicle suggests it does fit within the letter of the law.

 

Ford has stated to them that only electronic faults of the ecvt are covered. That only the e part of the ecvt is covered. This is because this is only part of the transmission that is actually unique to hybrids. The rest of the ecvt, the cvt part is mechanically similar enough to cvts in conventional vehicles that it is not included in the letter of the law.

 

More recent posts in the first linked thread by other owners agree. The e of the ecvt is under the hybrid warranty. The rest of the cvt is part of the power train warranty.

Their warranty does not explicitly state that the hybrid warranty covers only the electronic components. I This CVT is only used in the hybrid, and should therefore be unique to the hybrid. However, you could be right, but this is the first time I've heard of any such policy, and I've owned Ford hybrids for 7 years.

[openair]

This CVT is only used in the hybrid, and should therefore be unique to the hybrid.

You're thinking too specific to Ford.  Again, idk the specifics of the law, but i highly doubt there is a law for each manufacturer or something along the lines of "if a manufacturer only uses a component in their hybrids it is included."  It is much more likely the actual  law is worded more along the lines of "if a component is used solely in green vehicles across the auto industry as a whole, it is included."

 

Other manufacturers offer conventional vehicles with CVTs.  The mechanical parts of Ford eCVT are similar enough to the mechanical parts in other CVTs used by other manufacturers.

[Hybridbear]

Other manufacturers offer conventional vehicles with CVTs.  The mechanical parts of Ford eCVT are similar enough to the mechanical parts in other CVTs used by other manufacturers.

This is not true. The mechanical parts of the eCVT are two electric motors and a planetary gear set. This is nothing like the CVT you would find in a Honda Accord for example.

[openair]

Yea, I shouldn't have used the word "parts."  The mechanical nature, and mechanical job the component accomplishes.

 

Remember, we're talking about laws laid out by a bureaucracy.  Mechanics and engineers were likely only peripherally involved. To the people making these laws, a cvt is a cvt is a cvt.

Edited April 22, 2015 at 11:35 PM by openair

[stevedebi]

You're thinking too specific to Ford.  Again, idk the specifics of the law, but i highly doubt there is a law for each manufacturer or something along the lines of "if a manufacturer only uses a component in their hybrids it is included."  It is much more likely the actual  law is worded more along the lines of "if a component is used solely in green vehicles across the auto industry as a whole, it is included."

 

Other manufacturers offer conventional vehicles with CVTs.  The mechanical parts of Ford eCVT are similar enough to the mechanical parts in other CVTs used by other manufacturers.

Actually, it is Federal law, and CARB here in CA (and CARB states). I suspect that if this happened to me here in CA I could make a complaint to the CARB and Ford might be forced to take notice. The CARB rules are more stringent thant the Federal rules, but in either case in order for a manufacturer to get credit for building a certain number of clean cars, they have to do certain things, one of which is warrent the hybrid drivetrain and components for either 8/100K or 10/150K. The other thing is to have emission numbers lower than 90% (or 95%, or some such number - depends on how "clean" the manufacturer is certifying) of vehicles sold that year.

 

If Ford doesn't warrant the hybrid drivetrain, they would risk losing their clean car numbers - and in CA they have to sell a certain number of clean cars.

 

This design of transmission is only used on hybrid cars - it is integral with an electric motor. The Toyota design is similar, but they too only use it on hybrids. There is no conventional ICE car with this sort of transmission.

Edited April 23, 2015 at 05:48 PM by jeff_h

[stevedebi]

Basically, Ford (or any car builder) can choose not to warrant the transmission - but not if they want to keep their "clean" car allocations. They could provide only 12 months warranty if they wanted, but not if they want to have the cars count towards their required goals.

 

And the Energi is second only to all Electric in meeting those "Clean car" goals.

[openair]

They have warrantied the hybrid drive train. The e part of the ecvt is covered by the hybrid warranty.

 

Chevy sells a conventional car with a cvt.

 

Look we can 'suspect' back in forth all day but the fact of the matter is ford has specifically said electronic faults are covered by the hybird warranty and mechanical faults are not. Until you've something more than suspect and your interpretation of the law I'm not going to debate the competence of the lawyers advising ford how to handle this law.

Edited April 23, 2015 at 08:32 PM by openair

[stevedebi]

They have warrantied the hybrid drive train. The e part of the ecvt is covered by the hybrid warranty.

 

Chevy sells a conventional car with a cvt.

 

Look we can 'suspect' back in forth all day but the fact of the matter is ford has specifically said electronic faults are covered by the hybird warranty and mechanical faults are not. Until you've something more than suspect and your interpretation of the law I'm not going to debate the competence of the lawyers advising ford how to handle this law.

Which Chevy would that be? Honda sells a CVT, and Nissan practically makes you have one. I had a Ford CVT on my 2006 Freestyle. But none of them are the same technology as the Ford design, and none of them are created to accept dual power inputs - a specifically hybrid characteristic.

 

I'm not debating anything, just stating what I personally would do if they tried this on me. The Ford warranty statement does not specifically say that the hybrid drive train is partially covered; that statement is a generic warranty that covers all their drive trains - and it specifically says the hybrid transmission has the longer warranty.

 

Getting back to OP, I plan to purchase an ESP anyway that will cover the entire life of my vehicle, so it really doesn't matter to me. I'm primarily doing it because of the complexity of the electronics, however, not the drivetrain or hybrid systems.

Edited April 23, 2015 at 09:05 PM by stevedebi

[Boston_Pilot]

I know this is an old topic, but, the information bares repeating with my own personal experience included.

 

If the Mods think I shouldn't have posted the Stealership name....then feel free to delete. I can prove all I say. Being that they are one of, if not the, biggest in the NE....people should know.

 

Tasca Ford.

 

Purchased a 2017 Ford Fusion Energi (used) sight unseen, as it was a Brass Hat with every possible option (stickered over 43K). Tasca is in RI. I am in NJ. Drove the 300 miles there, process to buy the car was fairly easy. There was really nothing left to do but sign. The problem didn't arise until the finance person got involved. Long (very long) story short. She sold me a 6yr/60 ESP w/100 ded. Bank required she told me, which was not only not true, but illegal to state that. I had no idea, and like an idiot signed and drove home.

 

She charged me $2,800.00 for that warranty.

 

I found out later that Ford DIRECT charges $1,100.00 for the exact same policy WITH interest free financing if you choose to go that route. I ended up buying from Flood online. 6yr/60 w/50 ded AND light replacement for $850.00

 

Also, this particular finance person (who I'm not naming, as I'm not through with her yet) refused to cancel the warranty. It took a Ford Complaint (3 actually) to get this resolved. Ford cancelled it directly....and must have told the dealership to refund my money, because I had a check within 3 days from the dealer.

 

Caveat Emptor my friends.......