Count me in: 12 volt dies overnight or while at work

[pluggedin]

Yes, the charger was still plugged into the car when the 12v battery died. That is what surprised me, since I assumed if there was a draw of current from any source (door left ajar, trunk lid left open) while the 240v charger was plugged into the car the charger would supply the needed electricity.

 

I still have the charger attached to the car. Should I remove that now and start the car using the start button?

[murphy]

Yes, the charger was still plugged into the car when the 12v battery died. That is what surprised me, since I assumed if there was a draw of current from any source (door left ajar, trunk lid left open) while the 240v charger was plugged into the car the charger would supply the needed electricity.

 

I still have the charger attached to the car. Should I remove that now and start the car using the start button?

It depends on how big the charger is.  If it's one of those 6 amp ones it will take a long time to charge the battery.  If it's a big one like 30 amps may as well let it finish the job.  Either way once the battery has enough charge to be stable at 12 volts turning the car on would be the fastest way to complete the charge although it will impact your mpg.

[pluggedin]

It depends on how big the charger is.  If it's one of those 6 amp ones it will take a long time to charge the battery.  If it's a big one like 30 amps may as well let it finish the job.  Either way once the battery has enough charge to be stable at 12 volts turning the car on would be the fastest way to complete the charge although it will impact your mpg.

I'm not too worried about mpg's at this point. The 12v battery charger, that I borrowed from a neighbor, is small but it has a switch for 2 amp, 12 volt charging and 30/150 amp Engine Start setting. I have it set on the 2 amp side and it has been charging for a couple of hours now.

 

I think I will just unhook the battery charger and drive the car around town to let it do its own thing.

[pluggedin]

Okay. I drove the car around in EV Later for a time and everything LOOKS or seems fine.

 

Here are a couple of things I have noticed in the last week or so: 1. The Navigation screen came on when I did not bring up; 2. Another screen came on with out my bringing it up, that I can't recall right now; 3. Weirdest of all, I inadvertently reset my MPG's in Engage and since then the 10ths of miles per gallon have clicked off like a digital watch clicks of seconds...literally; 4. Now the battery goes dead.

 

I think my Sync is out of sync, so to speak, and I notice there is another update available online....but....I have to take it to a Dealer for an install of the update. So, I made an appointment for this coming Wednesday, in the morning. That should be fun.

[larryh]

I get the same dealer-installed update available message when I log into synchmyride.  Others have reported that when they contacted the dealer, the update was not applicable to their car.  You should be able to provide your VIN and the dealer will tell you if it is needed.

 

I wonder if some of the modules in your car need to be reset if they are doing strange things.  They might not have been shutting down properly causing a power drain on the battery.  Or they could be malfunctioning because the battery voltage was too low. 

Edited August 26, 2013 at 11:44 PM by larryh

[pluggedin]

I wonder if some of the modules in your car need to be reset if they are doing strange things.  They might not have been shutting down properly causing a power drain on the battery.  Or they could be malfunctioning because the battery voltage was too low. 

This is entirely possible (probable even) but there is no way of knowing the status of the 12 volt battery, that I am aware of, until it goes dead. A recent post suggested buying a 12 volt battery gauge that plugs into the car...really...I have to buy a cheapo gauge to test the battery in my car? Guess if I had paid a little more for the car they could have included one. :stirpot:

Edited August 26, 2013 at 11:49 PM by pluggedin

[larryh]

Yes, I would be disappointed too.   Unfortunately, from the experiences of others,  it seems that diagnosing the cause of the problem can be difficult.  There are so many components that draw power from the battery.  There is a lot of high tech in the car.  Hopefully, the dealer will quickly be able to identify the source of the problem for you.

 

I monitor the charge on my battery.  But that is mostly because I want to understand how the car works and how best to optimize its operation.

Edited August 27, 2013 at 10:48 AM by larryh

[pluggedin]

OK, I went to WalMart and bought a battery monitor and also a charger that pretests the battery prior to charge. Both showed a value of 12.5-12.6 and the monitor went as low as 11.9 this morning. So the battery is not holding a charge or it is being discharged by the system for some reason.

 

I dropped the car off at the dealership this morning so we will see what they find and how long they keep it.

 

I wasn't at the dealership long (they brought me home) but before I left I noticed they had some 2014 Fusions on the lot and at least one of them was a hybrid. I didn't see a Energi tho.

 

So I have had my car for 5 months and it's already a year old...but I knew that would happen going in. However, I didn't really expect to see the new models until late Sept or early Oct.

[ChuckJ]

Yes, the charger was still plugged into the car when the 12v battery died. That is what surprised me, since I assumed if there was a draw of current from any source (door left ajar, trunk lid left open) while the 240v charger was plugged into the car the charger would supply the needed electricity.

 

I still have the charger attached to the car. Should I remove that now and start the car using the start button?

What was the voltage with the battery plugged in?

 

ChuckJ

[pluggedin]

What was the voltage with the battery plugged in?

 

ChuckJ

I'm going to guess you are asking what the voltage of the 12v battery is when the 240v charger is plugged into the car. It's the same, no matter what. So the 240v charger, apparently, does not charge the 12v battery if it low. It is only charging the EV battery.

 

When the car is off (and plugged in) the red alternator light on the battery monitor is on, which means to me the alternator, or system, is not charging the 12v battery. Also with the car off and the red alternator light on, the battery voltage is displayed. When the car is turned on the red alternator light goes out and the alternator output is displayed. If the battery is dead, a second red light will come on as well.

 

Here is the monitor: http://answers.walmart.com/answers/1336/product/16139506/questions.htm

Edited August 28, 2013 at 07:28 PM by pluggedin

[ChuckJ]

I'm going to guess you are asking what the voltage of the 12v battery is when the 240v charger is plugged into the car. It's the same, no matter what. So the 240v charger, apparently, does not charge the 12v battery if it low. It is only charging the EV battery.

 

When the car is off (and plugged in) the red alternator light on the battery monitor is on, which means to me the alternator, or system, is not charging the 12v battery. Also with the car off and the red alternator light on, the battery voltage is displayed. When the car is turned on the red alternator light goes out and the alternator output is displayed. If the battery is dead, a second red light will come on as well.

 

Here is the monitor: http://answers.walmart.com/answers/1336/product/16139506/questions.htm

I think you've figured out your problem.  The 12 volt battery should be charging at 14+ volts when the car is plugged in.  It's probably a relay or dead 300v to 12V (14V) converter.

 

ChuckJ

[larryh]

The 12 volt battery does not always charge the entire time the HVB is charging.  Today, when the HVB started charging,  the 12 V battery monitor read 12.73 V.    A few minutes later, it was up to 13.38.  What is important, is that when the car is turned off, you close all the doors, and you wait at least 20 minutes for the battery to stabilize, the voltage on the battery should be close to 12.6 V or more (provided you have charged the HVB within the past 8 hours).  

Edited August 28, 2013 at 09:00 PM by larryh

[larryh]

I discovered one sure way to drain the 12 V battery.  Leave the charger plugged into the car when the charger is unplugged from the wall outlet or turned off.  Then start the car.  The car will not charge the 12 V battery under these conditions.  If you turn up the climate and accessories, it will quickly draw down the 12 V battery's charge. 

 

I was attempting to run down the HVB a little to experiment with value charge.  After letting the car sit for several minutes, I noticed the car was displaying messages to turn something or other off to conserve power.  The MFT display continued to show the HVB battery charge at 100% when it was actually 90%.  I then turned the car off and unplugged the charger from the car and turned it back on.  Now the car charges the battery and MFT displays the correct HVB battery charge.

Edited August 28, 2013 at 11:25 PM by larryh

[ChuckJ]

The 12 volt battery does not always charge the entire time the HVB is charging.  Today, when the HVB started charging,  the 12 V battery monitor read 12.73 V.    A few minutes later, it was up to 13.38.  What is important, is that when the car is turned off, you close all the doors, and you wait at least 20 minutes for the battery to stabilize, the voltage on the battery should be close to 12.6 V or more (provided you have charged the HVB within the past 8 hours).  

When you first plug in the HVB the engine battery should be charging over 14 volts.  I would recommend this volt meter (Volt Minder).  It plugs right into the cigarette lighter.

http://www.voltminder.com/

 

ChuckJ

[pluggedin]

I don't even know where to start with this.

 

I took the car into the dealership with the battery monitor plugged in and showed the Service Writer, Kamilo, that the monitor was registering 12.5v with the engine of and told him it had gone to 11.9 at one point that morning.

 

I also told him I was there for a mandatory Dealership upgrade of the Sync. I left the car there and they brought me home at around 10:30 am.

 

At around 2 pm I got a call from Kamilo and said they checked the battery twice, using cold cranking amps, and the battery tested good. I challenged him on that based on the battery meter voltage but he insisted they go by CCA. Okay, I said, let's move on to the upgrade.

 

No upgrade necessary Kamilo said because my car has the most current upgrade...the one the myfordmobile web site says they need to install...and that both the battery and Sync test normal, so you can come and get your car. And this is where is gets interesting.

 

I asked him how the upgrade got on the car, since the upgrade is a Dealer install only and is not available for me to download onto a USB flash drive. He didn't know.

 

I then asked them to retest the battery and reinstall the Sync download because I thought that Sync was not operating right and hung up the phone.

 

While I was waiting for those results I called Ford Service and told them what was going on and they could not tell me how the upgrade got on the car either. Myfordmobile says I need the upgrade but the Upgrade History on the site shows it was installed in my car on 8/7/13 but not confirmed. My last confirmed install was on 4/6/13.

 

Kaya, with Ford Service, called Kamilo and told him to have the Tech give her the CCPU number from the car and that would tell her exactly what upgrade was in the car. He did that and the upgrade is current??? Armed with that and based on my comments she had the Tech do a Hard Master Reboot of the system.

 

The Tech test drove the car and everything was just perfect so they told me to come and get the car. Of course, by the time I got there Kamilo and the Tech had already left for the day. So I took the car back and drove home.

 

Everything looks pretty much the same way it did when I took the car in. My average mpg's are spinning like a top and they didn't used to. And my local FM radio station has either quit broadcasting the song info or Sync isn't picking it up, like it once did. If I switch to Sirius the song info is there, but not on any of the FM stations.

 

When you folks are driving your car, do your average mpg/mpge's change like a digital watch reporting seconds? Mine does and it didn't do that a month or so back. Maybe my settings are incorrect...I don't know.

 

I plugged the car in when I got home and the battery monitor was registering around13.0 volts while the car was charging so I felt pretty sure the 12v battery was being charged. But when I went out this morning there was no power at all to the cigarette lighter plug (car still plugged in) until I hit the start button and the battery monitor registered a reading of 12.5. Apparently the car shuts all systems down after awhile. So now I unplug the car from the 240v charger and wait for about a half hour and the reading is 12.3 and steady for the past hour but it did drop to 11.9v at one point just after I unplugged the car.

 

With the car unplugged, I hooked my battery charger to the car and both the battery monitor and the charger registered readings of 12.1v with the car in off mode. I then put the car in run mode and the monitor show 14.2v and the battery charger 14.3v. I switched the charger to charge and it indicated the battery was in a 95% charge state, so I let it charge the battery to 100% and 13.1v.

 

So this is where I am today; I'm still confused as to how Sync was updated and the battery seems to be charging but some of my Sync feature don't seem right to me. Whatever! I am playing golf today and the car can wait.

[pluggedin]

I just drove the car 5.1 miles in EV Now. I started at 66.5 MPGE and ended at 71.4 MPGE, or about 1 MPGE improvement per mile driven, in round numbers. That still seems like a pretty significant improvement but the gauge was not spinning like it was, so maybe what they did yesterday solved that issue. Still no song name's on the radio though.

 

When I put the car in off mode the battery monitor registered 12.1v.

[murphy]

The hard master reboot cleared out the accumulated MPGe reading.  When the car was driven after that it started at 0 and at every new calculation would show a higher number.  This would continue until the reading stabilized at the correct value.

 

The dealer installed update is bogus.  It is the same one (3.6.2) that I installed myself when it came out.  Ford's computer systems and the syncmy ride website are messed up.  There is a report on the forum somewhere that says a Ford person said they are trying to fix the website.

[Andre07]

EV Later forces the car to run in hybrid mode but doesn't put the hybrid battery symbol on the display. The hybrid battery symbol only appears when the "big" battery is empty. The 12 volt battery is being charged when the car is in run mode by the DC to DC converter. When the hybrid battery reaches its lower limit the ICE comes on to propel the car and recharge the hybrid battery. The part of the HVB that was reserved when EV Later was enabled is not used for anything while in EV Later mode.

 

There is only one high voltage battery. The hybrid battery is a 1.1 KW part of the main battery. The electronics will never let that "battery" be completely discharged.

thanks for the explanation but am wondering how the AC unit or Heater is powered when the vehivle is in EVLater mode

[Russael]

thanks for the explanation but am wondering how the AC unit or Heater is powered when the vehivle is in EVLater mode

 

While the ICE is running, the electric motor is turned in to a generator which feeds the accessories and puts some energy back in to the battery pack (EV Later is just 'hybrid now' mode).  Once the pack is sufficiently charged, the ICE shuts off and then starts drawing power from the pack (and the pack feeds the accessories).

[larryh]

I just drove the car 5.1 miles in EV Now. I started at 66.5 MPGE and ended at 71.4 MPGE, or about 1 MPGE improvement per mile driven, in round numbers. That still seems like a pretty significant improvement but the gauge was not spinning like it was, so maybe what they did yesterday solved that issue. Still no song name's on the radio though.

 

When I put the car in off mode the battery monitor registered 12.1v.

Until everything turns off and stabilizes, I frequently see readings below 12 V.  For the past 6 mornings, after charging the previous night, I have observed voltages between 12.49 and 12.9 V after waiting 20 minutes for things to stabilize.  The lowest reading I have observed after the car sat for a couple of days is 12.35 V. 

 

If you are seeing 12.1 V after about 20 minutes after charging or running the car, that could be an indication that something is not turning off.  I would continue to check it to see how rapidly it continues to fall over time.    If the car is in fact not shutting down properly, you dealer should have caught that.

 

Yes, the car shuts down the power points after a half hour or so, so you have to restart the car, close the doors,  and wait 20 minutes to take a reading. 

Edited August 29, 2013 at 08:40 PM by larryh

[gary945]

Not sure it's related but a friend had her C-Max 12V battery die twice in one month.  It turned out that after shutting down she had left the transmission in Drive rather than Park. Not sure why that would kill the 12V battery overnight.

[mikenmar]

I experienced the dead 12-volt battery today, in my 2013 Fusion Energi Titanium.

 

I had the car plugged into my 240V charger all night, so it was fully charged when I got in this morning.  There was something unusual about the way the car started up though -- the dash did not fully light up right away, and things just seemed wonky somehow.

 

I drove away and parked in a garage (about a mile away) to catch a train to work, and as soon as I left the car, I started getting text messages saying "12 Volt Battery is low. Please plug the vehicle in."   I had to catch a train though, so I left it in the garage.  I got a dozen or so of these messages over the next 45 minutes.

 

This afternoon, when I got off the train from work and went back to the car, it was completely dead and unresponsive.

 

However, I was able to get it started.  I logged into MyFord Mobile remotely and did a remote start.  It didn't work the first time -- I had to do it several times, and eventually I noticed the headlights started to flicker.  I did it a couple more times, and I started getting a bit of light on the dashboard controls.  At that point I started repeatedly pushing the Start button on and off, and eventually it seemed to get enough juice to start up!

 

Again, it started up wonky, with the dashboard not fully light up, etc.  It took awhile for the screen to come on, then it went through a Sync maintenance run for awhile.  But I was able to put it into gear and drive away.

 

I drove home and plugged it back in, where it is now charging.  Will report back on further events.

Edited January 12, 2016 at 01:23 AM by mikenmar

[Hybridbear]

Will report back on further events.

Any update?

[mikenmar]

The car is in the shop.

 

This is incredible:  I called the dealer on Monday to schedule an appointment.  They said, "We can't look at it until Friday (today)." 

 

So I made an appointment for today, and took it in.  When I showed up for my appointment, they said, "We won't be able to look at it until next Wednesday."

 

I don't get it.  The car is under warranty.  They have a contractual obligation to fix it.  Doesn't that mean they have to fix it within a reasonable amount of time?  Or can they just keep putting me off indefinitely?

Edited January 15, 2016 at 11:28 PM by mikenmar

[jeff_h]

The car is in the shop.

 

This is incredible:  I called the dealer on Monday to schedule an appointment.  They said, "We can't look at it until Friday (today)." 

 

So I made an appointment for today, and took it in.  When I showed up for my appointment, they said, "We won't be able to look at it until next Wednesday."

 

I don't get it.  The car is under warranty.  They have a contractual obligation to fix it.  Doesn't that mean they have to fix it within a reasonable amount of time?  Or can they just keep putting me off indefinitely?

 

Send a PM to "FordService" here on the forum and they can get in touch with your regional manager to work with that dealer's service manager to get your car the attention it needs.