Count me in: 12 volt dies overnight or while at work

[mergy]

Bought the Fusion Energi SE and it all ran well for the first month and a half. Then, I came down for work and the car was off even though I got an email early that morning that the HV charge was complete. We jumped the 12 volt, and chalked it up to leaving the car door open or something. I ran for a few more days fine. Then, it happened again. I had it towed to the Ford Dealer only to have them play with it for a few days. They upgrade the software, but the batter tested okay. I ran for a couple of weeks fine again and thought we were done with it until today when it died at work. A jump fixed it again. 

 

The 12 volt battery is so small. I think if I can get a replacement battery, that just might be the issue. Initially, I was worried the car had some mystery draw, but a defective battery probably makes the most sense. It's too bad because I love the car except for this stupid issue. 

 

Jon in SF, CA

[dlb92]

Is there some way to put it in "away" mode so it stops communicating with ford? 

 

Has anyone left their car unplugged for more than a day or so and had the battery work fine?

[Markn455]

So far I have not had an issue with the 12v battery. I wonder what charges it? The ICE, plugging in, or perhaps both. What about the folks that never get of the HVB who's ICE only runs when in the fuel freshens mode. Hmm.

 

I am a ham radio operator and have my radio connected directly to the 12v battery. The radio pulls 10 amps when transmitting. So far, I have not had any issues with the 12v battery.

 

Mark

[murphy]

The 12 volt battery is charged by a DC to DC converter running from the HVB.  It is charged anytime the car is in run mode and when AC from the wall charger is used to charge the HVB.

 

Connecting directly to the battery posts may cause a problem.  There is a shunt in series with the positive post that I think the car uses to monitor current flow into and out of the battery.  I originally had my TR-741A connected that way but it now connects to the circuit that feeds the three power ports.  That has the advantage that when the car shuts off the power is removed from the radio.  I had the sides removed from the console to install LED lighting in the cup holders so it was an easy connection.

[mergy]

After the 4th Ford Roadside assistance call and jump, I am going to try and hit a Chargepoint station and zap it with a 240 charge to see if that can help. I did get the car into the dealer and they kept it for a few days, updated the software and tested things but did not swap with a new battery. 

 

Very frustrating because it is an awesome car to commute with but this 12 volt battery death is killer. 

[mergy]

I charge it nightly with the 120 charger. 

 

Is there some way to put it in "away" mode so it stops communicating with ford? 

 

Has anyone left their car unplugged for more than a day or so and had the battery work fine?

[Markn455]

The 12 volt battery is charged by a DC to DC converter running from the HVB.  It is charged anytime the car is in run mode and when AC from the wall charger is used to charge the HVB.

 

Connecting directly to the battery posts may cause a problem.  There is a shunt in series with the positive post that I think the car uses to monitor current flow into and out of the battery.  I originally had my TR-741A connected that way but it now connects to the circuit that feeds the three power ports.  That has the advantage that when the car shuts off the power is removed from the radio.  I had the sides removed from the console to install LED lighting in the cup holders so it was an easy connection.

I would like to know more about where and how you connected. I would also like to hear more about the led lighting you are talking about.

 

Mark

[murphy]

I would like to know more about where and how you connected. I would also like to hear more about the led lighting you are talking about.

 

Mark

Here is the description of the LEDs in the cup holders.

 

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1049-ambient-lighting-in-console-cup-holders/?do=findComment&comment=5144

 

The radio is connected to the same place that the LEDs are connected.

The radio is in the trunk bolted to the cover that is over the HVB.  Four plastic "christmas tree" pins hold it in place so it comes out easily.

The control head is attached to the bottom of the console stack with 3M heavy duty dual lock superlock fasteners.

 

The rear seat cushion has two levers that release the front of the cushion.  Then push toward the rear and lift up to remove the cushion.

This is the first car I have owned that I didn't have a lot of trouble running cables from the trunk to the front of the car.

[mergy]

I have noticed that the Wifi settings were on. I have disabled that. Perhaps that is run off the 12 volt and possibly causing the draw that eventually kills the battery? I dunno. Gotta try something at this point. 

[larryh]

If you would like to monitor the 12 V battery, you could purchase an inexpensive Battery Monitor that plugs into the power points in the car. 

 

To measure the charge in the battery, you should wait several minutes for everything to shut down and the battery to stabilize before taking the voltage reading from the battery monitor.  After everything has shut down, you will notice that the voltage increases very slowly for the next half hour or so.    So I would wait at least 20 minutes after turning off the car and closing the doors before reading the voltage.   Note the power points shut off after a limited amount of time, so you will have to push the start button on the car twice to turn it on and then off so you can read the monitor.  You then have to wait for the voltage to stabilize.  You should arrange the monitor so you can see the measurement from outside the car without opening the doors, since opening the doors turns on several systems which uses power from the battery and will yield incorrect readings on the monitor.

 

If something is drawing current from the battery, the battery monitor will register less than a full charge voltage of 12.6 V. 

If the battery is charging (the car is on or the HVB is charging), the monitor will register a value greater than 13 Volts.

A fully charged battery will have a voltage reading from 12.6 to 12.85 V, when no current is being drawn from the battery. 

 

In the morning, after charging the HVB overnight,  I have measured the charge on the battery to be 12.62 V.  So if the  battery voltage is not around 12.6 V in the morning, something is wrong. 

 

If the car has sat a day, I would expect the battery charge to be around 12.5 V or better.

It the car has sat two days, I would expect it to be 12.35 V or better.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2013 at 12:04 PM by larryh

[http]

Is there some way to put it in "away" mode so it stops communicating with ford? 

 

Has anyone left their car unplugged for more than a day or so and had the battery work fine?

 

I picked up my Energi on May 31.  Since then, we have been away for a week in June and a week in July.  Both times I left the car unplugged in the garage.  I had no problems with the 12 v battery when I came home.  On both trips, I did check in with my car on my Android app once or twice. I understand that's a big power drain, but it didn't seem to affect my 12v battery.

 

I am monitoring this thread closely to see if I experience any of the same issues, but so far, I haven't seen anything like you describe here.

[dlb92]

Just an observation:  It seems the only two people that have this problem have made some modifcations to the car -- one spilled liquid in the trunk and the other added lights.

[mergy]

I haven't done anything and am dealing with this issue. No spills, no extra lights. 

 

 

Just an observation:  It seems the only two people that have this problem have made some modifcations to the car -- one spilled liquid in the trunk and the other added lights.

[Andre07]

Just an observation:  It seems the only two people that have this problem have made some modifcations to the car -- one spilled liquid in the trunk and the other added lights.

Seems like there may be many more people experiencing problems with the 12V Battery since Ford has released a TSB 13-6-1 to try to address the 12V Batteries going low , Dead or failing to charge properly.

 

I posted about this here:

 

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1105-12-volt-battery-died/page-6?do=findComment&comment=6802

 

c/p

 

I was looking around the Net to see if other Ford Energi and Hybrid users were experiencing problems with low or dead 12 Volt Batteries and it does seem to be the case since Ford has decided to release a TSB to try to address this issue.

 

I found this posted by cemax71 at fordcmaxhybridforum

 

Quote

TSB 13-5-1, HYBRID AND ENERGI - 12VOLT BATTERY UNABLE TO HOLD CHARGE - CHARGING IMPROVEMENTS

TSB issued May 2, 2013 to address charging the 12 volt battery.

 

There is no manufacture cut-off date so this could apply to all vechicles in the field as of today's date.

 

ISSUE:

Some 2013 C-Max, Fusion Hybrid, Fusion Energi and MKZ Hybrid vehicles may exhibit a 12 volt battery which is unable to maintain a charge or becomes discharged when the vehicle is operated with maximum electrical loads for short drive cycles and then left unattended for several hours.

ACTION:

Reprogram the Direct Current/Direct Current (DC/DC) Converter Control Module to the latest calibration using IDS release 84.02 and higher.

 

Link to TSB

 

Looks like the TSB has been superseded for Cold Weather Conditions. I wonder how they could do this since these Vehicles have not seen a Winter yet.

Edited August 19, 2013 at 12:32 AM by Andre07

[mergy]

Wow, was ready to get out the jumper box this AM, but tried the key and the car woke-up with the "Battery Saver" screen. All okay. I have to wonder if the "Battery Saver" had not kicked-in previously.

 

After the Chargepoint 240v charge on Sunday, I haven't needed to jump the car to get juice into the 12v.  

[Energized]

Wow, was ready to get out the jumper box this AM, but tried the key and the car woke-up with the "Battery Saver" screen. All okay. I have to wonder if the "Battery Saver" had not kicked-in previously.

 

After the Chargepoint 240v charge on Sunday, I haven't needed to jump the car to get juice into the 12v.  

 

If the Battery Saver indication came on at start up, that would almost seem to indicate the ignition was left in the Accessory mode or some other drain. 

Edited August 22, 2013 at 01:23 PM by Energized

[TX NRG]

The Battery Saver Message and 12V battery issues are common problems with the FFH. There is a long thread about the BSM on the FFH Forum: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6511-battery-saver-message/

[mergy]

I have not had to jump this week. I did:

 

1. Charge with a 240v charger (Chargepoint) last Sunday (which probably helped the 12v get some juice.)

2. Disabled the charge ring light indicator to be on while charging. I set it to minimal on door opens, etc. 

3. I have not used the EV later functionality at all. 

 

I have to wonder if these factors have played into the problems. Now that I think about it, the first month or so I had the Fusion Energi, I did NOT use the "EV Later" setting at all and was fine. It was after I started to use it, so I could save the battery power for use when I was around work later in the day and coming home, was when I really started to get a dead 12v battery in the morning. 

 

What is the logic on the "EV Later" if the car needs battery power during a long freeway drive, but isn't using the HV battery? Does it pull from the 12v?

Edited August 23, 2013 at 01:43 PM by mergy

[murphy]

EV Later forces the car to run in hybrid mode but doesn't put the hybrid battery symbol on the display.  The hybrid battery symbol only appears when the "big" battery is empty.  The 12 volt battery is being charged when the car is in run mode by the DC to DC converter.  When the hybrid battery reaches its lower limit the ICE comes on to propel the car and recharge the hybrid battery.  The part of the HVB that was reserved when EV Later was enabled is not used for anything while in EV Later mode.

 

There is only one high voltage battery.  The hybrid battery is a 1.1 KW part of the main battery.  The electronics will never let that "battery" be completely discharged.

[mergy]

Thanks! 

 

I left EV Later alone all week and did not have an issue. Now, I also did do a 240v ChargePoint charge last Sunday. The Battery Save Mode did kick-up a couple of times this week. Perhaps, the BSM was not kicking-in overnight when it should have. The 12v battery has completely died 5 times on me requiring jumps. 

[ChuckJ]

Bought the Fusion Energi SE and it all ran well for the first month and a half. Then, I came down for work and the car was off even though I got an email early that morning that the HV charge was complete. We jumped the 12 volt, and chalked it up to leaving the car door open or something. I ran for a few more days fine. Then, it happened again. I had it towed to the Ford Dealer only to have them play with it for a few days. They upgrade the software, but the batter tested okay. I ran for a couple of weeks fine again and thought we were done with it until today when it died at work. A jump fixed it again. 

 

The 12 volt battery is so small. I think if I can get a replacement battery, that just might be the issue. Initially, I was worried the car had some mystery draw, but a defective battery probably makes the most sense. It's too bad because I love the car except for this stupid issue. 

 

Jon in SF, CA

You should measure the battery voltage with a meter that plug into the cigarette lighter.  It should read over 14.5 volts when it is being charged and over 12.25 when not being charged (not more than one day sitting).  I have found most battery issues are caused when they are charged less than 14 volts.  Don't forget this would probably be a lemon law issue which is easy and documented in the manual.  Use arbitration, not court as if you lose there, you can go to court.  If Ford loses, they can't (at least that's the way it works in Texas).

 

ChuckJ 

[pluggedin]

I went to the garage this morning and noticed the brake lights on the car were flashing rapidly and the 12v battery is completely dead. I cannot get into the truck to access the battery but have a battery charger. Is it okay to use the jumper cable posts under the hood to charge the battery?

 

Now I wish I had paid attention to an earlier post that suggested running a line from the trunk release to the rear seats.

[murphy]

 Is it okay to use the jumper cable posts under the hood to charge the battery?

 

Yes.  I have charged my 12 volt battery using the posts many times.  I've also used them to attach another battery to keep the electronics from resetting while I had the regular battery removed from the trunk.

 

Do not turn the car on while the battery charger is connected.

Edited August 26, 2013 at 04:56 PM by murphy

[pluggedin]

Thank you Murphy. I took a leap of faith and hooked my battery charge up as indicated above. Good to have confirmation though and I appreciate the added advice concerning the extra battery to keep everything from resetting when disconnecting the 12v battery in the trunk. Could you make the battery charger act like a battery if you don't have a spare battery hanging around?

 

When I parked the car last night the EV battery was completely depleted but when I plugged the 240V charger in I watched the light ring cycle and accept the charger. This morning when I noticed the rear lights flashing very rapidly and no accessory lights on the dash, I checked mymobile and the EV battery was completely charged but the 12v battery was dead. I'm befuddled as to why?

 

Once I hooked the battery charger up I was able to unlock the trunk so I now have a line attached to the trunk release that runs to the back seat. What a pain!

[murphy]

I wouldn't expect it to work.  Most battery chargers supply pulsed DC to charge a battery.  They may do a full wave rectification of the incoming AC but don't add a filter capacitor since in this application the battery is the best filter available.  The computerized ones would detect the missing battery and shut down.  You don't need a big battery to supply the holding current.  The last time I did it I used the battery in my lawn tractor. 

 

A 12 volt 5 amp-hour gel cell is probably enough to get you going.  They go for about $15.  Once the car has voltage provided by the gel cell it can be put in run mode and the car will take over the job of charging the battery.

 

Was the car still plugged in when the 12 volt battery died?