Real world Fusion hybrid versus Energi

[dlb92]

I know the official EPA numbers but lets face it -- the EPA never gets it right.

 

Has anyone compared driving a Fusion Hybrid with an Energi in the real world?  I would be interested to see graphs like Larryh made for hybrid.  I'm betting in reality this car is just as good as the hybrid even with the extra weight. 

 

The one time I drove this car as a hybrid (battery dead) I got 46mpg, well above the EPA estimate and I wasn't that easy on the car.

 

I've heard most people can't get above 40mpg on the regular hybrid.

 

"In Ford’s case, the automaker said it would reduce the stated fuel economy of its C-Max hybrid utility vehicle to 43 miles per gallon from 47 miles per gallon in combined city and highway driving.

A Ford executive said Thursday that the company was voluntarily reducing the rating, and would offer cash payments to C-Max owners as reimbursement for additional fuel consumption."

Edited August 16, 2013 at 05:23 AM by dlb92

[dlb92]

Well I will confirm this..  I plugged in a Kill-a-watt meter and for about an hour it runs the AC using 1.33kwh from the wall--no battery use.

 

Edit:

 

Somehow I posted this in the wrong thread--it was supposed to go under GO Times.

Edited August 16, 2013 at 01:14 PM by dlb92

[larryh]

You can see a MPG vs speed chart for the Prius and C-MAX hybrids here:  http://cmaxchat.com/?p=1675.  The Fusion Hybrid should be similar to the C-MAX Hybrid.

[timf]

I am guessing that while Ford used the Fusion Hybrid to get the 47 combined rating for both the Fusion and C-Max Hybrids, they used the C-Max Energi to get the 43 combined rating for the Fusion Energi. The numbers are just too similar to the new C-Max numbers now that we know how Ford tests their hybrids.

[Russael]

I'm curious to know how many miles were on each vehicle when they did that test.  A brand spanking new vehicle with 500 miles on it may not do as well as one that has 5k on it for the fuel economy side.

 

I would also expect the Prius to do better.  It is a smaller car after all, smaller motor, slower acceleration, less goodies, less weight, and a more aerodynamic profile.  I think the c-max is more practical since you have more storage space and a more upright seating position.

 

Still...  only getting 44mpg at 60mph is a let-down.  I would've expected to greatly exceed EPA numbers at that speed.  My Expedition, if I drive it conservatively on the freeway, temps in the upper 70's to low 80's, 65MPH on flat ground with cruise, no A/C with windows down, will score 19+mpg where the EPA rating is 16, almost a 16% increase.  If I go slower, the numbers get even better.  Tried it with A/C on last year with windows up, same situation and I got somewhere around 17.5mpg.  And the truck currently has 107k on it.  Best it ever did was 21+ when it had around 35k on it with Firestone tires.  It currently has Michelin M/S2's on it (I LOVE those tires).

 

I have not yet had the Fusion on the expressway, let alone even run the ICE.  So until that happens, I would expect to not reach EPA numbers since the motor isn't broken in yet.

[dlb92]

I don't think they tested the Fusion energi -- they used the C-Max energi numbers since it has the same drive train.

[larryh]

Also, it appears the EPA only tested the Fusion Hybrid and used those results for the C-MAX hybrid:

 

Ford is changing the way it generates the miles-per-gallon label for C-MAX Hybrid going forward. Previously – and consistent with EPA’s General Label rules – testing of the Fusion Hybrid was used to generate fuel economy labels for a family of vehicles, including both Fusion Hybrid and C-MAX Hybrid. The result was the same fuel economy label values for both vehicles.

While the company could continue to use EPA’s General Label for C-MAX Hybrid, Ford voluntarily has decided to test and label C-MAX Hybrid separately going forward. The result will be a lower miles-per-gallon label for the 2013 C-MAX Hybrid. Testing to generate a label for the 2014 C-MAX Hybrid is not yet complete.

The revised 2013 Ford C-MAX Hybrid label will carry a class-leading EPA combined fuel economy value of 43 mpg – topping the combined label value of 42 mpg for the Toyota Prius v.

 

And, yes, they tested the C-Max Energi and used those results for the Fusion Energi.  So the C-MAX hybrid has too high of ratings and the Fusion Energi too low.

Edited August 16, 2013 at 09:10 PM by larryh

[47Minutes]

My current daily commute is ~23 miles one way with about 95% of that on the Hwy.  I am unable to recharge at work so I routinely drive inbound in EV Later mode and save the EV range for going home.  Here are my inbound, EV Later segments for this week:

 

Mon: 21.2 miles - 42% EV - Fuel Economy=48MPG (I can't remember what happened here other than I had to take the munchkin to gymnastics camp and forgot to tell them about her nut allergy and leave her Epi pen so I had to rush back in a panic)

Tue: 23.2 miles - 61% EV - Fuel Economy=68MPG

Wed: 22.6 miles - 59% EV - Fuel Economy=66MPG

Thu: 22.8 miles - 58% EV - Fuel Economy=61MPG

Fri: 21.6 miles - 53% EV - Fuel Economy=59MPG

 

So I'm doing well over the EPA 41 Hwy (43 combined) for the Energi when running it as a Hybrid.

[larryh]

I'm not sure that you are in hybrid mode for the entire inbound commute when using EV later.  The car needs to deplete the battery to 95% of full charge before it can begin EV later operation.  It might be more accurate to deplete the battery on the inbound commute and record hybrid mileage on the return trip.

Edited August 16, 2013 at 05:56 PM by larryh

[dlb92]

I did that once and got 46MPG but it would be interesting to aggregate several driver's results over a period of time.

Edited August 17, 2013 at 01:10 AM by dlb92

[Griff]

I frequently get 50-65mpge when traveling 34 miles at mostly 55mph on hybrid only. I think they failed to take into account that the bigger battery in the Energi can take a larger charge and allow you to go further between ICE runs, especially if there are any hills on your route. the only time I get in the 40 range is if I go on short journeys <5 miles or I'm heavy on the pedal (70+ mph).

[dlb92]

By hybrid only mode do you mean EV later or EV+auto?

 

If you are in EV+auto you are going to use up almost all your battery and you should get much more than 50-65mpge.

 

Is EV later hybrid mode?  I'm confused about that point because I haven't had to use it yet.

Edited August 17, 2013 at 01:12 AM by dlb92

[murphy]

Is EV later hybrid mode?  I'm confused about that point because I haven't had to use it yet.

EV Later is almost hybrid mode.  It reserves a major (92% to 95%) portion of the HVB to be used later.  It uses the ICE but does not have the hybrid battery display so you can't tell what the hybrid battery SOC is.  If the HVB is used until it is depleted then the car switches to hybrid mode and the battery display shows the SOC for the hybrid battery.  There is only one battery.  The "hybrid battery" is a portion of the HVB that is reserved for hybrid operation.  When the the HVB is used to depletion and the switch is made to hybrid mode the hybrid battery SOC is 100%.

[dlb92]

Are these adjusted MPGe or what the computer says?  Ask Larry about the MPGe correction equation.

I frequently get 50-65mpge when traveling 34 miles at mostly 55mph on hybrid only. I think they failed to take into account that the bigger battery in the Energi can take a larger charge and allow you to go further between ICE runs, especially if there are any hills on your route. the only time I get in the 40 range is if I go on short journeys <5 miles or I'm heavy on the pedal (70+ mph).

[easyv]

The CMAX is not as aerodynamically efficient as the Fusion, oddly enough (I think the cmax is pretty fugly), which is supposed to explain the difference, as they have the same drive train.

[dlb92]

Agree with you on the C-max ... its like a mini - minivan.

[Griff]

Are these adjusted MPGe or what the computer says?  Ask Larry about the MPGe correction equation.

This is based on an empty big battery.  Is there an adjusted MPGe if you start with an empty big battery? I thought that only applied if you were trying to calculate the real cost of electricity that you put into the battery.

 

I get great numbers by using Adaptive Cruise Control. If I have an empty battery, I limit my vehicle to 55mph. If I have electricity in my big battery, I limit to 65mph. Those numbers I quoted are all based on an empty battery travelling no greater than 55mph on I695 & I95 and then a few miles of small town driving.

[larryh]

For hybrid mode, there is no correction to apply to get true MPGe.  That only applies if plug-in energy was used to power the car.  If you do not exceed 55 mph, it is expected that you will get 50+ MPGe in hybrid mode. 

Edited August 22, 2013 at 08:34 PM by larryh

[dlb92]

So basically looking at a average of MPGe its impossible to determine what your true MPGe is..

 

It is kind of frustrating when you go 15 miles and 4 are on gas the rest on electric and you only get 65MPGe and then you have to apply the correction--almost makes me wonder if its worth it.

 

But then you have to realize MPGe doesn't really mean anything with regard to cost savings.

 

We need a new measurement that accounts solely for cost savings. My lifetime average is around 250MPG but that doesn't take into account the $20 I spent in electricity.