Is Chevy feeling the heat?

[47Minutes]

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/06/2014-chevy-volt-price-drop/

 

$34,995 is the new base.

[jeff_h]

Didn't Focus Electric do the same?

[Energized]

Didn't Focus Electric do the same?

 

Not exactly. The Focus EV lowered the price by 4K, not 5K.   5K is 25% greater, regardless, the Focus EV is a small volume compliance car built on the same assembly line as the regular Focus.  The Volt was supposed to be selling in large volumes which is why they had a dedicated assembly line for the car.   The Volt has been selling at a small fraction of the the original plan even with massive incentives.  The "build it and they will come" approach has ended badly for GM.  

 

 

Jan 21, 2011

 

'Chief Executive Officer Dan Akerson plans to double the 2012 production capacity for the Chevrolet Volt to 120,000 as he works to boost the plug- in hybrid’s sales, said two people familiar with the matter.'

[dlb92]

Does anyone know how much it actually cost to produce the Fusion energi?  I'm sure its easily over 50 million dolllars.  If that is the case our cars should have cost double what they do.  I know I've read Chevy loses money on every Volt they sell so I don't know how they can drop the price even more.

 

With selling 2-3k Fusions this year there is no way Ford made any profit.  The dealers are mad they even have to carry them. I will happily take advantage of the money Ford has spent to invest in the future.

Edited August 9, 2013 at 02:20 AM by dlb92

[meyersnole]

One of the reasons Ford chose to deliver their hybrid, phv, evs on existing platforms is to share the development cost with their gas brothers.  So, while it may have cost over 50 mil to develop there are a lot more fusions and focus gasoline cars to share that expense. Also don't forget about CAFE. These vehicles help keep the fleet averages down.

Edited August 9, 2013 at 02:51 AM by meyersnole

[Energized]

The dealers are mad they even have to carry them. I will happily take advantage of the money Ford has spent to invest in the future.

Dealers are not mad about carrying Energi vehicles. Dealers have to apply and be approved by Ford before they are a certified EV dealer. Only a minority of dealers are EV certified and allowed to sell Energi models.

[murphy]

Dealers are not mad about carrying Energi vehicles. Dealers have to apply and be approved by Ford before they are a certified EV dealer. Only a minority of dealers are EV certified and allowed to sell Energi models.

It's a lot more than an application.  Two salesmen and two technicians have to be trained to sell and service the car and two charging stations have to be installed at the dealership.  My old dealer put off getting certified and lost the sale on my car.

[Energized]

It's a lot more than an application.  Two salesmen and two technicians have to be trained to sell and service the car and two charging stations have to be installed at the dealership.  My old dealer put off getting certified and lost the sale on my car.

 

Yes,  that's a requirement of the application and approval process:

 

 

To become certified to sell Ford’s plug-in hybrid vehicle, Ford dealers first had to satisfy a list of requirements, including:

 

• One of the two required charging stations at the dealership must be in the customer area and the other must be in the service area

 

• At least one Focus Electric and C-MAX Energi must be available at all times for demonstrations and events

 

• Of the sales consultant, sales manager, service advisor and service manager jobs at each location, 80 percent must meet specific electric vehicle training certification requirements that cover topics including advanced knowledge of electrification

 

• Each showroom will have point-of-purchase display materials including digital assets and window signage

 

• Participation in a Ford Go Green Dealer Onsite Facility Assessment to identify energy- and cost-saving opportunities with a goal of facilitating energy efficiency, lower operating expenses and carbon footprint reduction

[dlb92]

Actually all the dealers here in Florida are quite pissed they have to sell them.  They were forced to have them on their lot and they said they would never have the cars if it was their choice.

[meyersnole]

Actually all the dealers here in Florida are quite pissed they have to sell them.  They were forced to have them on their lot and they said they would never have the cars if it was their choice.

 

Did they say why?

 

I know the first dealer I went to was very unknowledgable and uninterested in the plug ins (at least a few of the sales people), but they did not seem upset about having them. They just did not see why someone would spend so much for them.

[dlb92]

They are forced to have them on their lot and they don't move.  They have to pay Ford some sort of interest on all the inventory they keep.  The average car sells in 7 days--I was the first potential customer they'd ever even shown an energi to and it had been there for over a month. All the dealers I talked to were in the same boat.

 

"Can you transfer a silver one from another deal?"  "No way, we don't want another one of those, we want to get rid of the ones we have."

[Energized]

The dealers aren't "forced" to do anything. 

 

Dealers voluntarily apply for EV certification so that they can sell EVs, if approved.   Most dealers haven't applied for EV certification.

 

Dealers that do voluntarily apply, meet the requirements and become approved EV dealers are only required to keep 1 Focus EV and 1 C-Max Energi in stock.  There is no requirement to keep a Fusion Energi in stock.  

 

 

The average car does not sell in 7 days.  The average days-to-turn is two months.

 

Edited August 23, 2013 at 02:25 AM by Energized

[dlb92]

Well ok but this particular dealer I went to--the average car sits on the lot 7 days. And I'm pretty sure if you are a full service ford dealer you would pretty much be required to sell the energi and know how to service it.

[jeff_h]

Well ok but this particular dealer I went to--the average car sits on the lot 7 days.

 

Sounds pretty unlikely to me, sounds like the salesman is exaggerating (imagine that)... maybe he/she is referring to their best selling model (SE hybrids around here don't sit long at all) but I doubt they are talking about their overall inventory.  Do you have state inspection stickers on the front windows in FL that get put on new cars at they get inspected at the dealer?  We have that in VA and I can walk the new car lot and see that a given model has had VINs sitting there for 1 month, 1 month, 0 months, 4 months, 8 months, 1 month, etc etc etc.  So some models move a lot quicker than others (and I agree with you that the Energi models seem quite slow as I've been watching a few dealers in my area), but I highly doubt that their average time on the lot for their fleet is 7 days.

[Energized]

Well ok but this particular dealer I went to--the average car sits on the lot 7 days. And I'm pretty sure if you are a full service ford dealer you would pretty much be required to sell the energi and know how to service it.

 

Ford dealers are not required to sell Energis.    There are only approximately 900 dealers who have voluntarily applied and been approved for EV certification.  That means only 1 out of 3 Ford dealers are EV certified. 

 

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/02/06/ford-gets-ready-for-900-ev-certified-dealers-by-this-spring/

 

Once a dealer has voluntarily requested and made the investments required to be a Certified EV dealer, they are required to stock one EV Focus and one C-Max Energi.  Part of the certification approval process involves sales and service training. 

[dlb92]

Part of the definition of a "full service" dealership is that they can take care of any car.  If you can take care of any car then you must be EV certified which then means as you said, you are required to stock certain vehicles. Therefore if you want to retain your full service status you must be EV certified and you must stock these types of cars.

 

I think the dealers ordered these cars and thought they were going to make a large profit off of them and then they ended up sitting on the lot for months and months and in some cases they are having to give them away.

 

I'm not trying to fight or argue just share my experiences here in FL with several dealerships.

[jeff_h]

No fight/argue needed, just simple discussion, we all come out better informed and better for it... though that doesn't occur on some sites, sadly.

 

Anyway, a friend of mine on the hybrid forum who I've emailed with a lot bought his car at same place as we bought our Energi, he told me he talked to the manager there who said that the push was on for the Energi in order to push up the CAFE-compliance numbers.  I don't know the details beyond that, but it makes sense since that would push that average up, and is more likely then being seen as a big moneymaker since that ain't happening.

[meyersnole]

No fight/argue needed, just simple discussion, we all come out better informed and better for it... though that doesn't occur on some sites, sadly.

 

Anyway, a friend of mine on the hybrid forum who I've emailed with a lot bought his car at same place as we bought our Energi, he told me he talked to the manager there who said that the push was on for the Energi in order to push up the CAFE-compliance numbers.  I don't know the details beyond that, but it makes sense since that would push that average up, and is more likely then being seen as a big moneymaker since that ain't happening.

 

Good point. The CAFE is to be 54.5mpg for cars and light-duty trucks by Model Year 2025, and this is done on a slope -- 2013 target is 28.5 (for this class) and 2014 is 29. So they need to sell more hybrids and energi's to meet their goals.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy#2011_agreement

[Energized]

I personally wouldn't consider presenting factual information to counter inaccurate information a "fight".   I think the board is better off if we deal in facts.  

 

Understanding the voluntary EV Certification process is an important piece of information regarding sales and service considering only 1/3 of dealers are EV Certified.   Potential buyers should understand that Energi's are sold and serviced at EV Certified dealers.

 

The contention that all dealers are "forced" to be EV certified is inaccurate and the fact that 2/3rds of all dealers are not EV certified demonstrates that.

 

Actually all the dealers here in Florida are quite pissed they have to sell them.  They were forced to have them on their lot and they said they would never have the cars if it was their choice.

Edited August 23, 2013 at 10:30 PM by Energized

[Energized]

Part of the definition of a "full service" dealership is that they can take care of any car.  If you can take care of any car then you must be EV certified which then means as you said, you are required to stock certain vehicles. Therefore if you want to retain your full service status you must be EV certified and you must stock these types of cars.

 

 

Can you please provide a reference to this requirement that all dealers service EV cars?    That runs counter to Ford's requirement. 

 

Chevrolet has the same requirement as Ford, and not all Chevy dealers are authorized to sell or service Volts.   Special tools and training are required to deal with high voltage batteries.  Not every dealer has those tools are training.  Those dealers should not be working on the EV portion of the vehicle.

[dlb92]

Despite your "factual information" that is so superior to my simple observations and personal interactions with dealers it seems to me you just want to pick apart everything I say.  If you read what I originally said and understood what I have been through in trying to find two of these cars to purchase you would know that these were my "observations" and what people at MULTIPLE dealerships have told me. I'm sorry if they didn't meet your factual standards even though you made many assumptions about my own comments. 

 

I did not say all dealers service EV cars and I did not say all dealers were forced to have these cars.  I said all dealers [that have the cars] are pissed that they have to have them on their lot. They are pissed that they aren't selling or they are pissed that they had to have them in the first place.  Either way they are pissed and these are the comments from the dealers themselves so you can highly doubt it all you want.

 

The [that have the cars] part is kind of implied because any idiot knows that not all dealers carry these cars especially if you have been looking all over the state for them like I have.  There are obviously dealers that do not carry these vehicles thus all dealers cannot be forced to have these cars. Many cannot have the cars because they don't have the charger/certification as you said and which I already knew.  

 

On a separate note, If the dealer has earned the designation of a "full service" dealership then by definition this dealership MUST be able to service EV vehicles otherwise you are NOT a "full service" dealership. There are many Ford dealerships around here but only one "full service" dealership and this is what all my comments revolved around.

 

If you are the biggest dealer within 60 miles and have a "full service" dealership why would you want to lose that designation?  You would probably be one of those people that say "Oh you can still choose to not be EV certified, you will just lose your full service designation." In the real world any "full service" dealership would know that they have no choice but to become EV certified and then they would believe that they were being forced to carry an EV vehicle.  You would not have the option to not carry these vehicles.

 

The person that told me they were forced to have these cars was at this full service dealership and has been their top sales person for the last 10 years.  So before you go spitting off facts and making assumptions about my comments maybe you should take a chill pill and take my observations for what they are--observations.

 

On another note Ford did an awful job on teaching the sales people how to sell these cars.  Some sales people were telling me oh you will only get 15 miles off of the battery.  Another time when I asked to see the Energi a salesperson took me to a hybrid and said the hybrid would be better for you.
 

Edited August 24, 2013 at 04:00 AM by dlb92

[jeff_h]

The person that told me they were forced to have these cars was at this full service dealership and has been their top sales person for the last 10 years.  So before you go spitting off facts and making assumptions about my comments maybe you should take a chill pill and take my observations for what they are--observations.

 

All please keep discussion civil so that nobody needs any "chill pills", the 'I know more than you' type discussions tend to lead down the road toward 'my Dad can beat up your Dad' and while entertaining for bystanders doesn't really serve the topic at hand very well. Thanks.

[jsamp]

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/06/2014-chevy-volt-price-drop/

 

$34,995 is the new base.

 

Back to the original topic.....

 

Chevy's rationale for the new price was that many people shopping online put $35K as the upper limit of their search, which immediately cut the Volt out of their searches.  Even though the rebates put the final price lower, it is the initial search that directs the purchase.  True or not I don't know, but that's their story.

 

I don't think "the heat" is so much driving the new price as their desire to increase sales to justify the large capital expense they put out to bring the thing to market.  3K sales in a month ain't bad, and they may even make 30K for the year.  Fusion Hybrid isn't much above that (may hit 40K this year)

 

If anyone's feeling the heat, it would be Ford now, as their lowest priced PHEV is now $2500 more than the Volt after Fed rebate.

[carnut56]

We all now know that Ford has lowered the price on the 2014 Energis $4,000.00 possibly in response to Chevrolet's lowering the price on the Volt.  This knowledge helped me get

a super deal on my just purchased 2013 Fusion Energi.  I appreciate the information about the dealer having to be certified to sell and service Ford's EV cars.  Here in green

Northern California, I think most of the dealers are certified for this technology.

[fwhite42]

On the original topic, I do think Chevy is "felling the heat," but perhaps not so much from the competition like our cars as they are from missing their own internal initial projections. The car had issues at launch, is getting mediocre reviews in most media, and simply isn't performing as they wanted...that HAS to be putting some "heat" on the people at the top.

 

On the side topic that sprung up, I can definitely say that at least some of the salespeople at the dealerships I went to are not thrilled with the way the plug-in and EV sales are handled. But, that's probably just because they aren't one of the "EV guys," so every buyer who comes in and wants to look at one of those cars goes straight to one of the specialists. At the first dealership I went to, they had no Energis (despite a somewhat misleading statement on their website) and they seemed miffed when I walked on the lot and said that's what I was looking for. At the second dealership I went to, I was greeted by the usual onslaught of salespeople hanging out near the customer parking area, and once I told them I was looking for an Energi, their mood noticeably turned sour as they told me they'd have to go get "the guy" that I could talk to. The dealership management seemed ecstatic about the Energi, and they had a TON of them in stock, and at least claimed that they were moving quite well.