Frustrated with the "Value Charge" feature

[mikenmar]

I have to say, this feature is pretty screwed up.  I have had it working in the past, but then something changes or some kind of bug prevents it from working properly. My value profiles got reset somehow.  Or it changes from "charge now" to "value charge" or vice versa without my doing anything.  Or the car starts charging when it shouldn't, or it doesn't charge when it should, so on and so forth.

 

I switched over to PGE's E-9 rates just so I can take advantage of the lower rates at night, but I don't want to have to get up at midnight to plug the car in. So I really wish Ford would get this interface fixed and working properly.

 

Has anyone else had the same kind of unreliability issues that I have?

 

[larryh]

Yes, Value Charge works correctly for me, but it takes some effort to figure out how it works.   For help on setting up value charge windows, see my post:  http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1016-new-myford-mobile-release/?p=4991.

 

You need to have GO times set up so that it knows when to schedule charging and make sure the clock is set correctly on MyFord Touch (be careful of AM vs PM).  Value Charge will try to select the highest priority (lowest cost) windows to charge.   When you plug the car in, it determines the charging schedule so that it will complete charging by the GO time making sure it fills up the lowest cost charge windows first, i.e. charging only during those windows.  Note that while waiting to charge, it will consume 60 watts of power for the on-board electronics, so you will see the light on the charger indicating that it is charging, when it is really not charging yet.

 

To make sure the charge settings are what you want, you can always go to the MyFord Touch EV info screen and select the wrong charge setting and then select the correct charge setting.  Hopefully, it will then do the charging method that you want.  Make sure to set MyFord Mobile to the correct charge settings first so that it does not override what you just did. 

Edited August 4, 2013 at 10:12 PM by larryh

[mikenmar]

Right, I had the profiles all set up.  Then for some reason, they got deleted and the profiles reverted to the default profiles.

[pluggedin]

A month or so back I tried Go Times and could not get it to work, period. I messed with it for about a week and finally decided I really had no real need for Go Times and that my time was better spent on something useful to me. I must admit that I was pretty frustrated at the time.

[larryh]

Right, I had the profiles all set up.  Then for some reason, they got deleted and the profiles reverted to the default profiles.

 

 

When you say deleted, I am not sure what you mean.   If you click on view all under Value Charge Profiles, do you see your home profile that you set up?  If you click on the edit link for your home profile, you should see the schedule that you set up.  Below is my schedule.  The lightest green region is the lowest cost charge window.  The darkest green region is the highest cost charge window.  So if I plugged my car in during the weekday at 5:00 pm, it would start charging at 9:00 pm (the lowest cost window from 9:00 pm to 12:00 am).  I have the 120 volt charger.  So it won't finish by midnight.  So it is going to have to continue charging in the second lowest cost window starting at 12:00 am until charging is complete.  Note that you must make each of the five different charge windows a different height, or it will do it for you and you probably won't like what it did.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2013 at 11:17 PM by larryh

[mikenmar]

^^^ Yes, I went through the setup, and had the profiles set up the way I wanted.  It was fine for a few days.

 

Then at one point, the car wouldn't start charging when it should have, and I went to check the profiles -- they had reverted to the default setup.

[larryh]

The only problem I had with value charge profiles is initially setting them up.  There is no manual to tell you how to do it.  I had to use trial and error to figure it out.  Once I set up the profile, I have had no problems with it.  Your home value charge profile should remain as you set it until someone resets it.  I actually have two different profiles, for each of the places I regularly charge.  You will have to setup up your home profile again and check it once in a while to make sure it is what you expect it to be.  There are a lot of steps to setting of value charging.  I would have to look at all your settings to see what is going on.

Edited August 4, 2013 at 11:59 PM by larryh

[larryh]

Note that the car sometimes overrides the value charge settings and starts charging the car immediately anyway.  If the battery is depleted, it immediately charges the battery up to 5% or 10%.  Also, you can't go by the charger to determine if the car is charging or not.  You have to look at the EV info screen on MyFord Touch and see what it says.  Value charge is working if it says the start time is during the low cost value charge time window.  Otherwise, it will say that it will start charging at plug-in. 

[mikenmar]

Yeah, I figured this out too.

 

But what is the reason for this? If I don't want it to start charging until after midnight, why in the world would it start charging up anyway? 

 

It costs up to seven times as much to charge during peak hours compared to off-peak.  The car is just going to SIT THERE in the meantime. 

 

If there's something so critical about having 5%-10% of the battery charged, it shouldn't discharge to 0% in the first place...

 

Note that the car sometimes overrides the value charge settings and starts charging the car immediately anyway.  If the battery is depleted, it immediately charges the battery up to 5% or 10%

[larryh]

You can see my post regarding this at http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/821-leave-it-plugged-in/?p=4422.  If I were to select the ChargeWise program from my electric company, the rates would be $0.0585 during off peak and $0.3785 during peak hours.  I contacted MyFord Mobile about this and explained to them how using Value Charge would cost me more money rather than saving me money.  They simply noted my comments. 

 

I am going to have to install a timer to prevent the charger from charging during peak hours or I am going to have to get a charger with a delay feature to delay charging until off peak hours. 

Edited August 5, 2013 at 08:50 AM by larryh

[mikenmar]

^^ So did you end up buying a timer, or what?

[larryh]

I haven't subscribed to the ChargeWise program yet.  I am considering various 240 V chargers at the moment.  The charger must be on a separate submetered circuit.   I will have to pay for the installation of the submeter (about $150).   Timers for a 40 amp, 240 V circuit must be hardwired.   They can't be plugged into a 240 V socket. 

 

If I were to buy a Charger with a delay feature, the cheapest I could find is from Blink for $700.  But they won't be available for some time.  Otherwise, Siemens and Schneider makes ones for $850. 

 

I can get a charger without the delay feature for about $500.  It would cost about $100 to install a simple mechanical timer.

Edited August 5, 2013 at 10:30 PM by larryh

[mikenmar]

This is SO frustrating....

 

I just plugged in my car (9:45 pm).  All I want is for it to wait until midnight to start charging.... I have the profile SET UP PROPERLY to do this...

 

For the umpteenth friggin' time, it started charging as soon as I plugged it in...

 

THIS FEATURE SUCKS.

 

Oh, and I contacted MyFordMobile about the issue above (how it overrides the value charge profile if the battery is at less than 10%.)  Their response?  "Don't let the battery go below 10%."

 

What kind of response is that???

[larryh]

When you look at the EV Info display on the MyFord touch screen in the car when the car is running, what does it say for the next start charge time on the bottom left before you plug the charger in?  Does it say at plug-in or does it specify a time?  At plug-in means that Value Charge is not selected.  If the time is not 12:00 am and you have selected Value Charge on the screen, then your home value charge profile is not set up the way you want.  It is supposed to select the minimum cost charge window first.  If it says the current time, then it thinks that now is the lowest cost time to charge.  If it specifies 12:00 am and it looks like the charger is charging, it is either waiting to charge and consuming 60 watts of power until midnight, or it is actually charging (which you can determine by monitoring the EV info window which will indicate that it is either "waiting to charge" or "charging" and you can see if the percentage charge is increasing).  If the charge if below 10%, then you will have to see if charging stops at 10%.

 

Note that the default profile already has the value charge window set for 12:00 am to 6:00 am.  If you did not modify this profile, you can use it in your home profile by checking the use Generic Value Charge Window when setting up the weekday and weekend charge profiles.  Also, be sure to make sure that the charger is set correctly in the default profile for 120 or 240 V.  Note that the value charge profile that is being used is determined by the main screen in MyFord Mobile at the top left where it says where you car is.  It lists the name of the profile that is being used in blue.

Edited August 6, 2013 at 09:58 AM by larryh

[mikenmar]

I checked the touch screen to make sure it was set on "Value Charge" -- which it was -- but I don't recall what time it specified.  I assumed it would work according to the added (that is, non-default) profile I'd set up on the website.  I will check next time.  But shouldn't they be the same??

 

And it was definitely charging, not "waiting to charge".  And the battery was at 85% when I plugged it in, so that wasn't the problem either.

Edited August 6, 2013 at 04:17 PM by mikenmar

[larryh]

If you are driving around and not at home, this is what you should see on the EV Info screen assuming you have not modified the default profile in MyFord Mobile and have selected Value Charge.  I would select Charge Now first and then select Value Charge just to be safe. 

 

Under My GO Time in the upper left, the first go Time should be a time in the morning, e.g 5:40 am.

 

At the bottom left, it should say Waiting to Charge.  The Start time should be 12:00 am tomorrow.   To the immediate right it should say Default Profile.

 

If you are at home and the car is not plugged in, the GO times are the same as above.  To the bottom left it should say Waiting to Charge.  The start time determines when charging will begin, 9:00 pm in my case.  If it is the current time, then you don't have the value charge profile set up properly for your home profile.  You can always reset it to the default profile in MyFord Mobile.  To the immediate right, it should say XXX Profile, where XXX is the name of your home profile.   In my case it says "Home Profile".   Below is a screen shot.  Note that the profile selected is based on the current location of the car. 

 

Edited August 6, 2013 at 10:40 PM by larryh

[larryh]

I haven't subscribed to the ChargeWise program yet.  I am considering various 240 V chargers at the moment.  The charger must be on a separate submetered circuit.   I will have to pay for the installation of the submeter (about $150).   Timers for a 40 amp, 240 V circuit must be hardwired.   They can't be plugged into a 240 V socket. 

 

If I were to buy a Charger with a delay feature, the cheapest I could find is from Blink for $700.  But they won't be available for some time.  Otherwise, Siemens and Schneider makes ones for $850. 

 

I can get a charger without the delay feature for about $500.  It would cost about $100 to install a simple mechanical timer.

 

I have decided to go with the Power Max 30 Amp Charger.  The total cost will be $1550.  I have a rather complex install that I have been working on now for 3 months.  Hopefully I have thought out everything thoroughly by now and there will be no new surprises.  It will include a 24 hour timer, a submeter, and the charger.  My electric service box is in the basement.  They are going to have to go through 35' of floor joists to get to the garage and then go another 30'.  The Power Company's ChargeWise program requires a separately sub-metered circuit.  So the electricians are going to install a submeter socket, along with a submeter, on the outside of the house to measure the electricity usage of the charger.  I will be able to monitor and keep track of how much electricity I use to charge the car. 

Edited August 7, 2013 at 10:44 AM by larryh

[Russael]

Does your power company use smart meters yet?  If so, then one feature most companies offer is real-time monitoring of that meter.  Since you're getting said sub-meter installed, they may have the option of running all the power cables outside rather than through your house.  My garage is detached, and when I ran power out there, I tied it in to my main service panel in my  basement (I do not have the garage metered separately).  It required me to dig a 50' long, 2' deep trench to the garage, where I installed my own subpanel.  I ran 50 amp, 240 service, but back in 2008, electric cars weren't actually on my mind yet.  I just wanted a lot of power out there for tools. :)  It worked out though.

 

Since they're doing a sub meter installation for your charger, they're not going to touch your main panel in the basement.  They'll install the other meter right next to your main one and tap off the main service entrance cable in your original meter box (the leads to the pole, not the leads that go in your home... if they do that then they need to be fired since you'll be double-metered), then most likely install an outdoor rated fuse box right after the sub meter to protect the circuit since it WON'T be running through a breaker panel.  They'll run the cable straight from the sub meter to your timer, and from the timer to your charger.

Edited August 7, 2013 at 01:34 PM by Russael

[larryh]

The power company does not use smart meters.  However, they state that they may install "load research metering" at their expense for monitoring of consumer load.   It would be nice if I could monitor the electricity use from inside the house rather than going outside to look at the meter.  

 

All the wiring will be indoors.  As explained to me by the power company, the electrician will install a breaker in my existing panel in the basement.  So the electricity used by the charger will register on both meters.  The electric company will subtract the submeter electricity readings from the main meter readings during billing.   It took many calls to the electric company and many revisions to the contract to get the installation correct.  The electrician hired by SPX, the supplier of the charger, has been in contact with the power company to determine the requirements.   He should have done that from the start and not waited for me to connect him with the appropriate people at the power company. 

Edited August 7, 2013 at 08:50 PM by larryh

[Russael]

That is one of the most weird installs I've ever heard of.  Well, I guess they do things differently in Minnesota.  Here in MI, if you get a separate meter, it doesn't go through any panels or anything... it just goes straight to your device (such as an A/C condenser outside, with outdoor rated breakers).  But to be double metered and then to subtract the usage from one meter to the other?  Well, so long as they don't screw anything up. :)

[larryh]

That's just my power company that does it that way.  The other one serving the region would require a separate panel. The electrician usually deals with the other power company and was confused about the installation.   I'll find out what really happens at the end of the month. 

Edited August 7, 2013 at 10:53 PM by larryh

[mikenmar]

I still can't get the Value Charging to work properly.

 

The Weekday profile works fine.  But for some reason, the Weekend custom profile never works properly.  It keeps getting reset to the default. I just had to go into the website and set it up yet again. 

[larryh]

When modifying a Value Charge Profile in MyFord Mobile, always click the Add Custom Charge Value Window button on both the Weekday Times and Weekend Times tab before pressing the Save button in the Review and Save tab.  If the profile is correct, you can always cancel at any time without saving. 

 

Also, note on Friday night, it uses the evening schedule from the Weekday profile and the morning schedule from the Weekend profile.  Similarly, on Sunday night, it uses the evening schedule from the Weekend profile and the morning schedule from the Weekday profile. 

 

Assume that my GO time for Saturday morning is 8:00 AM and that it takes 6 hours to charge.  If you look at my profile in the previous post, on Friday night it will start charging at 9:00 PM in the lowest cost window for the weekday profile.  It will charge one additional hour and stop at 1:00 AM in the second lowest cost window for the weekend profile.  It has charged for 4 hours with 2 hours to go.  It will then resume charging again at 6:00 am Saturday morning and stop at 8:00 AM (my GO time) in the lowest cost window to complete the additional 2 hours. 

Edited August 11, 2013 at 07:26 PM by larryh

[mikenmar]

OK, so I went through this again today.  Here's the profiles I created this morning:

 

 

 

After I created and saved them, I got a message saying they had been synced with the car.

 

Then later, when the car did not start charging (today is Sunday and it's nearly 11 PM, so it should be charging now, but it isn't) I checked the profiles and they had reverted to the default:

 

[larryh]

The first profile shown is set up incorrectly.  You need to choose different priorities for each value charge window.  Since that was not done, MyFord Mobile did it for you and you ended up with the second profile shown, which is not what you want.  Each of the value charge windows in the profile must have a different height when you set it up.  In the first one, it looks like for the weekday value charge windows, 12:00 am to 6:00 am was set to the minimum cost and all the rest were set to the max cost.  So MyFord mobile changed it for you.  It left from 12:00 am to 6:00 am at the lowest cost, then 6:00 am to 9:00 am the next highest cost, 9:00 am to 12:00 pm at a yet higher cost, etc.

 

You need to change the weekend value charge windows so that 10:00 pm to 12:00 am is the lowest cost, 12:00 am to 6:00 am is the second lowest cost, and then whatever you want for the rest.

 

Since 12:00 am to 6:00 am in the weekday value charge windows has lower cost than 10:00 pm to 12:00 am in the weekend value charge windows, it is going to wait until 12:00 AM to charge.

 

Note that the default profile has 12:00 AM to 6:00 AM as the lowest cost charge value window and the rest of the times are in the highest cost value charge window.  It has only two windows. 

Edited August 12, 2013 at 09:58 AM by larryh