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BXT-99R-390 Battery Discharge Plot


murphy
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If you have a Battery tester (one that plugs into the Lighter)  please leave it on and report what voltage you see before you start charging, what the rate is when charging  and what it it is when you pull the charger off and what it reads 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes after

 

I am sure others may be interested what you observe and report.

The voltage varies greatly while charging from 12.60 V to 14.45 V.   I just depends on the SOC of the 12 V battery and various other unknown factors.

 

I have recorded the voltage in the morning when starting off for work for the past week:

 

12.49, 12.48, 12.76, 12.68, 12.69, 12.9, 12.8, 12.77.

 

The car was charged the previous evening.  The voltages would, of course, be higher immediately after charging and during the night.  To measure the voltage, I had to start and stop the car to enable the power points.  I then waited 20 minutes for everything to shutdown and stabilize.

Edited by larryh
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The lowest voltage I have seen is 11.1 volts.  The car goes into run mode fine but the radio can't be turned on by itself.  When the battery is this low turning on accessory mode (push the start button without foot on brake pedal) does not turn on the center stack or the power outlets and charging does not start.  Almost immediately the battery saver messages appears and after the progress bar completes the car shuts down.

 

I have a battery tester that puts a 100 ampere load on the battery for 10 seconds and shows the voltage.  The voltage must stay above 11 volts at the end of the 10 seconds for the battery to be considered good.  The test is done after the battery is charged to 100%.

 

My battery passes this test but this is a "starter" battery test and doesn't say much for the condition of an AGM battery.

We have a standard, or lead-acid, battery in the car, right (I'm to lazy to go look)? An AGM battery is Marine, or deep cycle battery...correct?

Edited by pluggedin
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The voltage varies greatly while charging from 12.60 V to 14.45 V.   I just depends on the SOC of the 12 V battery and various other unknown factors.

 

I have recorded the voltage in the morning when starting off for work for the past week:

 

12.49, 12.48, 12.76, 12.68, 12.69, 12.9, 12.8, 12.77.

 

The car was charged the previous evening.  The voltages would, of course, be higher immediately after charging and during the night.  To measure the voltage, I had to start and stop the car to enable the power points.  I then waited 20 minutes for everything to shutdown and stabilize.

Thanks for th info larry.

 

Very strange how the 12 Volt Battery is being charged so that each day the Peak Voltage after a 20 minute wait is varying so much.

 

Since a Fully charged Battery should be reading 12.6V  there seems to be a 2% variance which may be caused by circuitry in the car by the Meter itself but if it i from the meter seems a bit high as most should be .05 to 1%.

 

At least we know that a prperly working charging system should be able to charge the 12V battery to around 12.6 after it has stabilized.  Some members are reporting much lower Values.

 

Wonder if you could run a test if you do not mind.

 

After charging the 12 V Battery and after waiting 20 Minutes

 

Can you please record the Voltage.

 

If you have Fog Lamps, turn them on and check how long before the 12 V Battery goes into Battery Preservation Mode.  With the fog lamps on we may determine how much current is drawn by checking the Current flow reported on the lamp.

 

Most standard Fog Light Bulbs draw 35 Watts each if they use H11 Module I believe

 

If you have no Fog Lights then can you turn on the Headlights and leave them on till the BPM turns the battery off and what voltage this occurs at.

 

Not sure if you can get the Headlights on without the Parking lights or if the Cars must be "ON"

 

Would be so much easier if we could bring up a Meter on one of the Meters to see what the actual Voltage and Current from the 12 V Battery is being used but since there is none we need to try this the hard and way.

 

murphy has mentioned that he has noticed athat around 11.1V things start to shut down, just trying to find out at what Voltage the Battery Preservation Mode is triggered, cause I believe that there must be a Master relay that takes the 12V Battery out of action till it is a a High enough Value to allow it to be able to pick up the various relays

Edited by Andre07
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If you have a Battery tester (one that plugs into the Lighter)  please leave it on and report what voltage you see before you start charging, what the rate is when charging  and what it it is when you pull the charger off and what it reads 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes after

 

I am sure others may be interested what you observe and report.

Before I started the battery charger the monitor (plugged into the lighter socket) read 12.0 and steadily climbed to 13.6, while the battery was being charged.

 

Within a few seconds after the charger turned off and the battery was, supposedly, at 100% the volts dropped from 13.6 to 13.1 to 13.0 and finally stopped at 12.9 within about 10-15 seconds. The following readings are for the battery monitor/battery charger readouts:

 

12.8/12.9 @ 5 minutes

12.9/13.0 @ 10 minutes

12.9/13.0 @ 15 minutes

12.9/13.0 @ 20 minutes

12.9/13.0 @ 25 minutes

12.9/alternating between 12.9 and 13.0 @ 30 minutes

 

It has been an hour since I started this test and I forgot to unplug the charger so when I went back out to take another reading the charger was on again and charging the batter. The monitor in the car reads 15.8v...the highest I have ever noted.

 

Also, I have charged the battery about four times now and each time the read out on the charger indicates a SOC of 100%. But if I turn the charger off and immediately restart it, the charger indicates the SOC is 95%, every time. So what's up with that?

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We have a standard, or lead-acid, battery in the car, right (I'm to lazy to go look)? An AGM battery is Marine, or deep cycle battery...correct?

The battery is not, as far as I can tell, a standard car battery.  The BXT-99R-390 and the BXT-57R-390 from my old 2010 Fusion Hybrid are batteries that were designed by Ford.  They are not available anywhere other than from a Ford dealer.  I do not know who manufactured them for Ford.  There are no specifications published for them other than the 390 CCA number on the battery itself.  It is my hope that it is an AGM battery because that is what is called for in this application.  The Owner's Manual calls out the wrong battery.  It lists a BXT-96R-500 or a BXT-96R-590 on page 302.  Those are for the gasoline only Fusion.  They are full size batteries and do not fit in the battery tray of the Energi or the Hybrid.  I had one jammed into my Energi for about a week and it performed much better than the little one.  However I didn't leave it in because if that kind of battery went dead there is a strong possibility that the battery would never work again.

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Also, I have charged the battery about four times now and each time the read out on the charger indicates a SOC of 100%. But if I turn the charger off and immediately restart it, the charger indicates the SOC is 95%, every time. So what's up with that?

I have found that my Schumacher XC103  (3, 5, 12-30 amps) always gives a low SOC when charging first starts.  After about a minute it jumps to a higher value and then increments in 1% steps to 100%.  I don't know what method it uses to determine the SOC.  It also has settings for Regular, AGM, and GEL batteries.  I have been using the AGM setting.

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The battery is not, as far as I can tell, a standard car battery.  The BXT-99R-390 and the BXT-57R-390 from my old 2010 Fusion Hybrid are batteries that were designed by Ford.  They are not available anywhere other than from a Ford dealer.  I do not know who manufactured them for Ford.  There are no specifications published for them other than the 390 CCA number on the battery itself.  It is my hope that it is an AGM battery because that is what is called for in this application.  The Owner's Manual calls out the wrong battery.  It lists a BXT-96R-500 or a BXT-96R-590 on page 302.  Those are for the gasoline only Fusion.  They are full size batteries and do not fit in the battery tray of the Energi or the Hybrid.  I had one jammed into my Energi for about a week and it performed much better than the little one.  However I didn't leave it in because if that kind of battery went dead there is a strong possibility that the battery would never work again.

I hate to sound like the dunce I am at times but my 12v battery charger has three settings; one for a standard, AGM or Gel battery. So what setting should I be using for THIS battery?

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Before I started the battery charger the monitor (plugged into the lighter socket) read 12.0 and steadily climbed to 13.6, while the battery was being charged.

 

Within a few seconds after the charger turned off and the battery was, supposedly, at 100% the volts dropped from 13.6 to 13.1 to 13.0 and finally stopped at 12.9 within about 10-15 seconds. The following readings are for the battery monitor/battery charger readouts:

 

12.8/12.9 @ 5 minutes

12.9/13.0 @ 10 minutes

12.9/13.0 @ 15 minutes

12.9/13.0 @ 20 minutes

12.9/13.0 @ 25 minutes

12.9/alternating between 12.9 and 13.0 @ 30 minutes

 

It has been an hour since I started this test and I forgot to unplug the charger so when I went back out to take another reading the charger was on again and charging the batter. The monitor in the car reads 15.8v...the highest I have ever noted.

 

Also, I have charged the battery about four times now and each time the read out on the charger indicates a SOC of 100%. But if I turn the charger off and immediately restart it, the charger indicates the SOC is 95%, every time. So what's up with that?

Are you charging it with the L2 or L1 Plug or are you using an external 12 Volt Charger?

 

Sorry but I do not yet have an Energi so I am not able to check for myself

 

When you say the SOC is displaying 100% or 95% is that on a specific Screen?

 

I would trust a Multi meter on the 12 Volt Posts to get the Actual Voltage if after Chaging and reapplying the charges says it is only 95% charged

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I have found that my Schumacher XC103  (3, 5, 12-30 amps) always gives a low SOC when charging first starts.  After about a minute it jumps to a higher value and then increments in 1% steps to 100%.  I don't know what method it uses to determine the SOC.  It also has settings for Regular, AGM, and GEL batteries.  I have been using the AGM setting.

Thanks. Looks like we were hitting post at the same moment.

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The battery is not, as far as I can tell, a standard car battery.  The BXT-99R-390 and the BXT-57R-390 from my old 2010 Fusion Hybrid are batteries that were designed by Ford.  They are not available anywhere other than from a Ford dealer.  I do not know who manufactured them for Ford.  There are no specifications published for them other than the 390 CCA number on the battery itself.  It is my hope that it is an AGM battery because that is what is called for in this application.  The Owner's Manual calls out the wrong battery.  It lists a BXT-96R-500 or a BXT-96R-590 on page 302.  Those are for the gasoline only Fusion.  They are full size batteries and do not fit in the battery tray of the Energi or the Hybrid.  I had one jammed into my Energi for about a week and it performed much better than the little one.  However I didn't leave it in because if that kind of battery went dead there is a strong possibility that the battery would never work again.

When you had the BXT-99R-390 out of the car did you notice if the Cell caps could be removed or if it was sealed.

 

Most AGM Batteries I have seen are Sealed.  The cells can be checked but the whole Top of the Battery needs to be cut open

 

Gel Batteries are similar in that they are also sealed.

 

Most Lead Acid with Liquid Fill have vent caps, some newer ones seem to be sealled but they are not and can be pried with a Screw driver.  These used called Low Maintenance.

 

From your Discharge graph using a 0.8 Watt Load, the inital discharge rate seems to be too steep for the Battery to be a AGM Battery, but am not totally certain.

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Are you charging it with the L2 or L1 Plug or are you using an external 12 Volt Charger?

 

Sorry but I do not yet have an Energi so I am not able to check for myself

 

When you say the SOC is displaying 100% or 95% is that on a specific Screen?

 

I would trust a Multi meter on the 12 Volt Posts to get the Actual Voltage if after Chaging and reapplying the charges says it is only 95% charged

Charging with an external 12 volt battery charger.  The charger has a screen that indicates the SOC of the 12 volt battery while it is being charged.

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When you had the BXT-99R-390 out of the car did you notice if the Cell caps could be removed or if it was sealed.

 

Most AGM Batteries I have seen are Sealed.  The cells can be checked but the whole Top of the Battery needs to be cut open

 

Gel Batteries are similar in that they are also sealed.

 

Most Lead Acid with Liquid Fill have vent caps, some newer ones seem to be sealled but they are not and can be pried with a Screw driver.  These used called Low Maintenance.

 

From your Discharge graph using a 0.8 Watt Load, the inital discharge rate seems to be too steep for the Battery to be a AGM Battery, but am not totally certain.

As I said I hope it is an AGM battery but don't know for certain.  The battery appears to have caps but the battery label is pasted over them.  The entire plastic label would have to be destroyed to get to them.  I am certain that would cancel the warranty on the battery.  The battery has vents at both ends.  The one facing the front of the car is plugged with a plastic plug.  The one facing the rear of the car has a vent tube which goes down through the floor of the battery area and I presume comes out under the car.  The standard battery (BXT-96R-590) has the same vent ports so now I am wondering if it is a standard battery.  That would have been a really poor design decision on Fords part IMHO as an Electrical Engineer.

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Are you charging it with the L2 or L1 Plug or are you using an external 12 Volt Charger?

 

Sorry but I do not yet have an Energi so I am not able to check for myself

 

When you say the SOC is displaying 100% or 95% is that on a specific Screen?

 

I would trust a Multi meter on the 12 Volt Posts to get the Actual Voltage if after Chaging and reapplying the charges says it is only 95% charged

I am using an external, Schumacher XCS-15, battery charger and the SOC is displayed on THAT battery chargers screen/display during the charging process. As stated, the charger indicates/displays that the state of charge (SOC) is 100% when the charge is complete but if I turn the charger off and restart the charging process all over again, the SOC displayed is 95%.

 

See Murphy's SOC explanation, above. If the Schumacher charger always starts off with a lower than actual SOC, it may be that the SOC will climb rapidly to 100%, or the actual current SOC. Regardless, the charger will stop charging at 100%.

 

The posts that I use to charge the battery are under the hood. The 12v battery is in the trunk. The posts under the hood are what I attach the leads for the 12v battery charger to.

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It just dawned on me that I can determine if it is an AGM battery or not.  I have to take the battery out of the car and shake it to see if I can hear the fluid sloshing around.  The electrolyte in an AGM battery is Absorbed into the Glass Mats (hence AGM) and is not free to slosh around.  I wish I had thought of that when I had it out previously.

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Ok, this is what I did today.

 

 

I went on a short errand and after I turned the car off the battery tester registered 12.5v

30 min later it registered 12.2v

 

I connected the battery charger and it showed 12.5v and battery % was 16

 

5 min - tester in the car showed 14.4v and charger said 74%

 

10 min - tester showed 15.7v and charger said 91% (battery charger showed 15.4v)

 

15 min - the tester showed 15.8v and charger said 95% (battery charger showed 15.4v)

 

20 min - the tester showed 15.9v and charger said 95% (battery charger showed 15.4v)

 

25 min - tester showed ?? and charger said 95% (battery charger showed 15.2v) - This is after I opened the driver's door to retrieve the tester since it stopped working!

 

30 min - tester showed ?? and charger said 97% (battery charger showed 15.8v)

 

35 min tester showed ?? and charger said 98% (battery charger showed 15.8v)

 

Now the charger is taking longer to step up to 100% so I am going to just let it do its thing.  I got a little nervous after reading Murphy has his Schumacher set on AGM.  Mine is set on Regular.  I did the unmanly thing and read the manual for my Schumacher charger.  So I do not make this post too long I will copy/paste the explanation from my manual for my particular charger in the next post.  

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Schumacher SC-1500A Charger:

 

 

BATTERY TYPE SWITCH

Use this switch button to set the type of

battery to be charged to one of the

following three.

• REGULAR: This is the type of battery

usually used in cars, trucks, and

motorcycles. These batteries have

vent caps and are often marked “low

maintenance” or “maintenance-free”.

• DEEP CYCLE: Deep cycle batteries

are usually marked as “deep cycle” or

“marine”. Deep cycle batteries are

usually larger than the other types.

• AGM, GEL CELL: AGM and gel cell

batteries have sealed cases without

vent caps. Such batteries are often

smaller than the other types.

With the exception of AGM and gel cell

batteries, all other battery types may or

may not have vent caps. Vent caps are

located on top of the battery and

provide a means to add distilled water

when needed. Batteries should be

marked with their type. If charging a

battery that is not marked, check the

manual of the item that uses the battery.

If the battery type is unknown, use the

REGULAR setting. Make sure the

battery complies with the safety instructions

on page 3.

 

So my "Oh oh" moment has passed and I should be fine with my charger set on Regular.  Whew!

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Thanks for th info larry.

 

Very strange how the 12 Volt Battery is being charged so that each day the Peak Voltage after a 20 minute wait is varying so much.

 

Since a Fully charged Battery should be reading 12.6V  there seems to be a 2% variance which may be caused by circuitry in the car by the Meter itself but if it i from the meter seems a bit high as most should be .05 to 1%.

 

At least we know that a prperly working charging system should be able to charge the 12V battery to around 12.6 after it has stabilized.  Some members are reporting much lower Values.

 

Wonder if you could run a test if you do not mind.

 

After charging the 12 V Battery and after waiting 20 Minutes

 

Can you please record the Voltage.

 

If you have Fog Lamps, turn them on and check how long before the 12 V Battery goes into Battery Preservation Mode.  With the fog lamps on we may determine how much current is drawn by checking the Current flow reported on the lamp.

 

Most standard Fog Light Bulbs draw 35 Watts each if they use H11 Module I believe

 

If you have no Fog Lights then can you turn on the Headlights and leave them on till the BPM turns the battery off and what voltage this occurs at.

 

Not sure if you can get the Headlights on without the Parking lights or if the Cars must be "ON"

 

Would be so much easier if we could bring up a Meter on one of the Meters to see what the actual Voltage and Current from the 12 V Battery is being used but since there is none we need to try this the hard and way.

 

murphy has mentioned that he has noticed athat around 11.1V things start to shut down, just trying to find out at what Voltage the Battery Preservation Mode is triggered, cause I believe that there must be a Master relay that takes the 12V Battery out of action till it is a a High enough Value to allow it to be able to pick up the various relays

 

I just came back from a trip.  I am not at home, so I have to use the 120 Volt charger.  It will not complete charging until 10:00 pm.  I noted the following 12 V battery voltage readings after plugging in the 120 V charger:

 

10 min - 12.63 V

20 min - 12.74 V

30 min - 14.31 V

40 min - 13.35 V

50 min - 13.38 V

60 min - 13.34 V

70 min - 13.34 V

 

I am going to assume that it stays at 13.34 V for a while. 

 

It looks like it took 30 minutes before the battery was discharged enough for the car to decide to start charging.  It initially charged at 14.31 Volts for ten minutes and then has now switched to 13.35 Volts for the rest of the time.

 

I think discharging the battery using only the fog lamps will take too long.  The other day I accidently discovered that starting the car with the charger plugged into the car, but the charger itself was not plugged into the outlet, the car would not charge the 12 V battery.  I had all the accessories running, AC, lights, fans, radio, etc for more than 30 minutes before it displayed some message or other about energy conservation--probably turn power off to save battery?  I think the voltage was around 11.7 V. 

Edited by larryh
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My battery charger shows 12.6v and 100%.  Is that right??

 

So I had to turn the car on to use the battery tester in my cigarette lighter.  It registered 14.6v

 

As soon as I turned the car off, the battery charger dropped to 60%, increased to 75% and then 90% within 10 seconds.  It is now 12.9v and 100% again.  I am confused!

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As soon as you turn the car on, the car starts charging the 12 V battery so you see 14.6 Volts.  The voltage is going to drop after you turn the car off because things are still running and drawing power from the battery.  Anytime there is a load on the battery, the voltage on the battery will fall.  The higher the load, the more the decrease.  You have to wait until everything turns off, which takes a couple of minutes, and things to stabilize before full voltage will return to the 12 V battery.  I generally wait 20 minutes.

Edited by larryh
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After charging the car this afternoon and reporting what I found here I drove the car about 4 miles in EV Now and came home. When I parked the car, shut it off and opened and closed the door I waited a few second and the plugged in battery monitor showed 12.2v and the light that indicates the alternator is not charging was on, which is normal. What is not normal is the bad battery light on the monitor was on too. So I let it sit while I was puttzing around for about a half hour and then started the car again to park it in the garage and when I turned the car off this time the bad battery light did not come on and the monitor displayed 12.5v. I give up!

 

After I posted this I went out to check the monitor one more time and, with the 240v charger plugged into the car, the monitor reading is 14.1 and the alternator light is out. Just after I plugged the 240v L2 charger in the reading was 12.5.

Edited by pluggedin
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It takes a lot longer than a few seconds for everything to shut down.  The battery voltage will slowly rise from 12.2 V to 12.6 V after about 20 minutes when everything shuts down and stabilizes.  You have to wait that long to see the correct battery voltage.  While things are on and loading the battery, the voltage will be less than 12.6 V.

 

The car doesnt always start charging the 12 V battery immediately after you plug it in.  It starts after the 12 V battery has been sufficiently depleted. 

 

Your car is doing what I would expect.

Edited by larryh
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Ok, this is what I did today.

 

 

I went on a short errand and after I turned the car off the battery tester registered 12.5v

30 min later it registered 12.2v

 

I connected the battery charger and it showed 12.5v and battery % was 16

 

5 min - tester in the car showed 14.4v and charger said 74%

 

10 min - tester showed 15.7v and charger said 91% (battery charger showed 15.4v)

 

15 min - the tester showed 15.8v and charger said 95% (battery charger showed 15.4v)

 

20 min - the tester showed 15.9v and charger said 95% (battery charger showed 15.4v)

 

25 min - tester showed ?? and charger said 95% (battery charger showed 15.2v) - This is after I opened the driver's door to retrieve the tester since it stopped working!

 

30 min - tester showed ?? and charger said 97% (battery charger showed 15.8v)

 

35 min tester showed ?? and charger said 98% (battery charger showed 15.8v)

 

Now the charger is taking longer to step up to 100% so I am going to just let it do its thing.  I got a little nervous after reading Murphy has his Schumacher set on AGM.  Mine is set on Regular.  I did the unmanly thing and read the manual for my Schumacher charger.  So I do not make this post too long I will copy/paste the explanation from my manual for my particular charger in the next post.  

I would leave the Charger set to Standard cause I do not believe the  BXT-99R-390 is anything but a standard Liquid filled Lead Acid Battery.

 

Do you happen to have a Multi-meter by chance?

 

If yes, please take a Voltage reading at the Posts that you are charging at cause a Charging rate of over 14.4 VDC is excessive and if it does charge at 15.5 volts or higher as you have indicated, the Battery could be over charging and the Battery could over heat, causing the Electrolyte to boil and vent out Oxygen and Hydrogen which is very Flammable and could warp the Lead Plates which in turn cause them to Short out..

 

Hopefully the External Charger is just reporting a higher Voltage than it is actually Supplying

Edited by Andre07
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