A plethora of system faults last night.

[Nherring]

Hi all

 

Had an interesting experience last evening. About mid-day, after completing a charge on the Charge-point at work, I pulled the car and parked it nearby before going back to work. At 5:30, I started the car to head home and was confronted by a series of faults, beginning with AdvanceTrac and ending with the check-engine light coming on. I stopped the car, re-started to no avail. The car was running ok, although cruise control wouldn't engage, among other thing. I drove home without incident and parked te car, figuring I'd call the dealer in the morning. When I restarted the car this morning, all the adults had cleared but the check-engine light. Around 10am, I called a dealer near work and set up an appointment for next Tuesday. Later, I restarted the car, after having driven for awhile, and the check-engine fault had cleared as well.

 

At this point I called Rob, the Energi expert at Grappone Ford, in Concord NH, the guy who trained me to operate te systems, and learned what happened. He believes that I must have left the drivers door ajar most of the day yesterday (or left an interior light on) or otherwise caused the 12 volt system to drop blow the critical voltage threshold required by the computer and according to Ford, lost the system, causing the faults. The adults cleared once I drove the car and re-charged te 12 volt battery.

 

So, FAIR WARNING.....

 

It is critical that the 12volt system stay at spec. If it falls too far, the car won't even start until the 12 volt system is re-charged no matter how well charged the hybrid battery is.

 

On a side note, I spoke with Ford customer service and two service managers at other dealers and none understood the problem and what to do to fix it, other than to schedule a service visit next week. Fortunately, Rob went through the same exercise last week with a C-Max that they left a NH Speedway in Laconia for a few days during race week. Constantly engaging the system by opening the driver-side door caused the 12volt system to discharge to the point where it threw so any faults, nothing worked.

 

If you live in NH and know someone who's interested in the car, have team call Rob.... He's amazing. And Grappone sold 8 more Energis since I bought mine 6 weeks ago.

[murphy]

An interior light would not have stayed on.  All lights time out and shut off some time after the car is turned off.  There are many things using the 12 volt battery when the car is turned off.  I have measured a current spike in excess of 10 amps when MyFordMobile is used to get the status of the car.  It is my opinion that the 12 volt battery is way too small for the demands that are put on it.  It also should be a deep discharge battery but Ford has not published any specs on it so there is no way to know if it is or not.  I have a voltmeter in my car and quite often when I turn the car on the meter reads 11.1 volts.  Every time I have connected a battery charger to the 12 volt battery after the car has sat idle for a day or two it tells me the charge level is less than 50%.  Using the global window open function means it has to run 5 motors at the same time.  That is a big drain on the battery.  It is impossible to listen to the radio with the car turned off because the voltage drops quickly and the car goes into battery protection mode and turns the radio off.

 

This is not a new problem.  My 2010 Fusion Hybrid had the same problem with draining the 12 volt battery.

[mczajka]

I guess they need to add a third well in the trunk for a battery jump charger, which could be a new feature...LOL. When I told the service dept. I went out and got one, as well as a digital battery meter, they said "you shouldn't have to do this with a new car." Well, what do you want me to do, get stranded? It's a shame, I really love this car, but when a car becomes undrivable, you start questioning the decision to drop $42K on it.

[jeff_h]

 service dept. said "you shouldn't have to do this with a new car."

 

Ya think???   Well at least they aren't acting like there is nothing wrong with the car and you are dreaming it up...

 

Hopefully they replace the 12v battery if not done already (if they did I missed it), but maybe it's too easy if that has been the cause - and if not then it's time to get a engineer come from Ford to the dealership and figure it out.  There is a user on the hybrid forum who had this occur (at another MD dealer) when his parking brake would not release and other fault codes kept triggering... he ended up getting the car replaced under MD's lemon law.

[Eric4539]

Hey mczajka, that comment from the service department makes me think that dealer may not be the best to service your Energi.  For me, where I live, the closest dealer that sells the Energi is an hour away.  The next closest dealer selling the Energi is 2 hours away.  The dealer in town doesn't even have one on the lot.  The Ford dealers that are "certified" to sell Energi's seem to have only one person that has been trained, but I really do not know what that means.

 

The first dealer I visited to ask about the Energi and to test drive also had one of those said Energi trained sales persons, but he happened to be off that day.  So the salesman that helped me knew nothing about the Energi which I was glad in a way, because I knew more about the car than he did, but I also found that to be rather ridiculous.  He couldn't answer any questions that I asked.

 

The second dealer also had an Energi specialist so the salesman that greeted me and showed me their inventory on the lot eventually went to find the specialist so he could tell me all about the Energi.  Blah, blah, blah.....

 

Now the dealer where I actually purchased my Energi from was fantastic.  Their Energi specialist asked me what I knew about the car, if I had any questions, and said if I went on the internet I could learn much more about the car from the forums.  Imagine that!  He asked me if I knew about MyFord Mobile app, and I told him I already downloaded it since I knew I was buying the car that day.  He made sure I had the correct app and then he registered me for everything that he said would be beneficial for me including the $1500 state rebate (still waiting for the check!).

 

Not sure how many dealers are in your area but it might help you resolve your issue by finding the dealer that you really trust.  The problem for me is the dealer that I trust is 5 hours away!

 

I truly hope Ford listens to you, miczajka.  Keep us posted!

[Depauwler]

Oy...  Really?  I check the status all the time.  But if it's plugged in, it's supposed to charge the 12v too, right?

[larryh]

If you look on page 244 of the manual, you will see a procedure that you should follow when the 12 volt battery fails:

 

Because your vehicle’s engine is electronically-controlled by a computer, some engine control settings are maintained by power from the low voltage battery. Some engine computer settings, like the idle trim and fuel trim strategy, optimize the driveability and performance of the engine. Some other computer settings, like the clock and radio station presets, are also maintained in memory by power from the low voltage battery. When a technician disconnects and connects the low voltage battery, these settings are erased. Complete the following procedure in order to restore the settings:

1. With the vehicle at a complete stop, set the parking brake.

2. Shift the transmission into P.

3. Turn off all accessories.

4. Step on the brake pedal and start the vehicle.

5. Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature. While the engine is warming up, complete the following: Reset the clock. See Audio System (page 297). Reset the power windows bounce-back feature. See Windows and Mirrors (page 72). Reset the radio station presets. See Audio System (page 297).
 6. Allow the engine to idle for at least one minute. If the engine turns off, step on the accelerator to start the engine.

7. While the engine is running, step on the brake pedal and shift the transmission to N.

8. Allow the engine to run for at least one minute by pressing on the accelerator pedal.

9. Drive the vehicle at least 10 miles (16 kilometers) to completely relearn the idle and fuel trim strategy.

Note: If you do not allow the engine to relearn the idle and fuel trim strategy, the idle quality of your vehicle may be adversely affected until the engine computer eventually relearns the idle trim and fuel trim strategy.

Edited July 20, 2013 at 07:00 PM by larryh

[mczajka]

An interior light would not have stayed on.  All lights time out and shut off some time after the car is turned off.  There are many things using the 12 volt battery when the car is turned off.  I have measured a current spike in excess of 10 amps when MyFordMobile is used to get the status of the car.  It is my opinion that the 12 volt battery is way too small for the demands that are put on it.  It also should be a deep discharge battery but Ford has not published any specs on it so there is no way to know if it is or not.  I have a voltmeter in my car and quite often when I turn the car on the meter reads 11.1 volts.  Every time I have connected a battery charger to the 12 volt battery after the car has sat idle for a day or two it tells me the charge level is less than 50%.  Using the global window open function means it has to run 5 motors at the same time.  That is a big drain on the battery.  It is impossible to listen to the radio with the car turned off because the voltage drops quickly and the car goes into battery protection mode and turns the radio off.

 

This is not a new problem.  My 2010 Fusion Hybrid had the same problem with draining the 12 volt battery.

 

They electrician that installed my SPX Power Xpress recommended these batteries, but they don't have any for 2013 models. http://www.odysseybattery.com

 

I'm not ready to go there. My car is still at the dealer.

[mczajka]

If you look on page 244 of the manual, you will see a procedure that you should follow when the 12 volt battery fails:

 

Because your vehicle’s engine is electronically-controlled by a computer, some engine control settings are maintained by power from the low voltage battery. Some engine computer settings, like the idle trim and fuel trim strategy, optimize the driveability and performance of the engine. Some other computer settings, like the clock and radio station presets, are also maintained in memory by power from the low voltage battery. When a technician disconnects and connects the low voltage battery, these settings are erased. Complete the following procedure in order to restore the settings:

1. With the vehicle at a complete stop, set the parking brake.

2. Shift the transmission into P.

3. Turn off all accessories.

4. Step on the brake pedal and start the vehicle.

5. Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature. While the engine is warming up, complete the following: Reset the clock. See Audio System (page 297). Reset the power windows bounce-back feature. See Windows and Mirrors (page 72). Reset the radio station presets. See Audio System (page 297).

 6. Allow the engine to idle for at least one minute. If the engine turns off, step on the accelerator to start the engine.

7. While the engine is running, step on the brake pedal and shift the transmission to N.

8. Allow the engine to run for at least one minute by pressing on the accelerator pedal.

9. Drive the vehicle at least 10 miles (16 kilometers) to completely relearn the idle and fuel trim strategy.

Note: If you do not allow the engine to relearn the idle and fuel trim strategy, the idle quality of your vehicle may be adversely affected until the engine computer eventually relearns the idle trim and fuel trim strategy.

 

How is it that my radio station presets are still there, but the clock gets messed up, after the 12 volt battery fails? What this tells me is that perhaps it is not completely dead, and I think what others have said is a relay goes off when it hits a certain threshold.

Edited July 23, 2013 at 04:46 PM by mczajka

[mczajka]

I also noticed during the first 3 months I had the vehicle that sometimes the auto window up would work, and sometimes it wouldn't. I don't know if this was me accidentally resetting it, or the beginnings of my battery woes.

[larryh]

The auto window up not working is a common problem with many owners.  See CombsAuthor's post to fix that  http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/806-global-opening-and-closing/.

 

Yes--it is unlikely the battery was completely dead.  Just didn't have enough power to energize the circuits required to start the car and the dc to dc converter from the high voltage battery to charge it, and not enough power to reliably maintain the volatile memory of Sync.  Hopefully, Sync is not corrupted so that it properly turns things off and shuts down correctly.

Edited July 23, 2013 at 11:20 PM by larryh

[SD Diver]

Hi all

Had an interesting experience last evening. About mid-day, after completing a charge on the Charge-point at work, I pulled the car and parked it nearby before going back to work. At 5:30, I started the car to head home and was confronted by a series of faults, beginning with AdvanceTrac and ending with the check-engine light coming on. I stopped the car, re-started to no avail. The car was running ok, although cruise control wouldn't engage, among other thing. I drove home without incident and parked te car, figuring I'd call the dealer in the morning. When I restarted the car this morning, all the adults had cleared but the check-engine light. Around 10am, I called a dealer near work and set up an appointment for next Tuesday. Later, I restarted the car, after having driven for awhile, and the check-engine fault had cleared as well.

At this point I called Rob, the Energi expert at Grappone Ford, in Concord NH, the guy who trained me to operate te systems, and learned what happened. He believes that I must have left the drivers door ajar most of the day yesterday (or left an interior light on) or otherwise caused the 12 volt system to drop blow the critical voltage threshold required by the computer and according to Ford, lost the system, causing the faults. The adults cleared once I drove the car and re-charged te 12 volt battery.

So, FAIR WARNING.....

It is critical that the 12volt system stay at spec. If it falls too far, the car won't even start until the 12 volt system is re-charged no matter how well charged the hybrid battery is.

On a side note, I spoke with Ford customer service and two service managers at other dealers and none understood the problem and what to do to fix it, other than to schedule a service visit next week. Fortunately, Rob went through the same exercise last week with a C-Max that they left a NH Speedway in Laconia for a few days during race week. Constantly engaging the system by opening the driver-side door caused the 12volt system to discharge to the point where it threw so any faults, nothing worked.

If you live in NH and know someone who's interested in the car, have team call Rob.... He's amazing. And Grappone sold 8 more Energis since I bought mine 6 weeks ago.

Wow - October 2014, I had the same symptoms and recorded the cycle on my phone. Sent it off to my ford dealer. They kept the car over two weeks but were unable to find a problem. Now it looks as if my gps failed. Nav screen shows gps with a red x through it. Not feeling the love here. In 18 months, it has been at the dealer for 6 weeks.