murphy Posted August 3, 2013 at 12:18 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 at 12:18 AM But won't the car then be on? If it is charging the battery, then you will see that voltage instead?That's true. I'm wondering if the 12 volt battery died because the 12 volt battery charger stopped working. I've had a low 12 volt battery but so far it hasn't died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 3, 2013 at 12:21 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 at 12:21 AM (edited) I just tried it. Engineering test mode showed 13.8. The battery monitor showed 14.45. So it isn't showing the actual battery voltage. I haven't noticed anything unusual with my battery yet. Edited August 3, 2013 at 12:24 AM by larryh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted August 3, 2013 at 01:11 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 at 01:11 AM Mine shows a difference of 0.5 volt with the ET display lower. My Fluke multimeter says the battery monitor is the correct voltage. ET mode can be entered in accessory mode (push ON without putting your foot on the brake), which does not charge the battery, which will give an actual battery reading although still low by 0.5 volt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 3, 2013 at 01:29 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 at 01:29 AM When entering Engineering Test Mode without using the brake, the console display shows 14.0 and the battery monitor shows 14.4. So the battery is still being charged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric4539 Posted August 3, 2013 at 05:05 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 at 05:05 AM Thank you murphy and larryh! I drove the car tonight without incident. Everything seems to be fine. On my drive to the restaurant the engine light was on but the car was fine. On my drive home the engine light was off. I decided that I will keep my appointment with the dealer and have them check the 12v battery. The strange thing is when I received the message that the car was fully charged this afternoon MFM showed 20 miles in the battery. When I started the car tonight to leave for dinner the battery meter in the instrument panel showed 18 miles. This happened before where MFM shows higher miles in the battery than the car shows in the instrument panel. I plugged the car in when I got home and I think it was at 12 miles remaining in the battery. I checked the car about 20 minutes ago and the charging ring light was off but the battery fan was still going. Checking the charger the light was still on for "Charging" so like you said, the 12v batter was now charging. I received the message that charging was complete about 10 minutes ago so I just checked the charger and now all lights are off. So now the 12v battery should be fully charged as well. I did not run Engineering Test Mode but I will tomorrow morning. Thank you again murphy and larryh; you guys are terrific! TX NRG, jeff_h and Andre07 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted August 3, 2013 at 09:18 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 at 09:18 AM When entering Engineering Test Mode without using the brake, the console display shows 14.0 and the battery monitor shows 14.4. So the battery is still being charged.I haven't figured this one out yet. Sometimes it charges and sometimes it doesn't charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 3, 2013 at 11:57 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 at 11:57 AM (edited) Thank you murphy and larryh! I drove the car tonight without incident. Everything seems to be fine. On my drive to the restaurant the engine light was on but the car was fine. On my drive home the engine light was off. I decided that I will keep my appointment with the dealer and have them check the 12v battery. The strange thing is when I received the message that the car was fully charged this afternoon MFM showed 20 miles in the battery. When I started the car tonight to leave for dinner the battery meter in the instrument panel showed 18 miles. This happened before where MFM shows higher miles in the battery than the car shows in the instrument panel. I plugged the car in when I got home and I think it was at 12 miles remaining in the battery. I checked the car about 20 minutes ago and the charging ring light was off but the battery fan was still going. Checking the charger the light was still on for "Charging" so like you said, the 12v batter was now charging. I received the message that charging was complete about 10 minutes ago so I just checked the charger and now all lights are off. So now the 12v battery should be fully charged as well. I did not run Engineering Test Mode but I will tomorrow morning. Thank you again murphy and larryh; you guys are terrific!MyFord touch includes the climate control settings when estimating the EV range of the car. The car does not send the climate control settings to MyFord Mobile. So the estimate in myFord Mobile does not include the climate control settings. Climate control will reduce the range of the car. That is why you see the discrepancy. You might want to look at page 244 of the manual for the procedure to restore settings once the 12 V battery loses power. Edited August 3, 2013 at 12:31 PM by larryh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric4539 Posted August 3, 2013 at 05:27 PM Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 at 05:27 PM With the car still plugged in I went to Engineering Test mode and the battery showed 13.9 but dropped to 13.7 after about 15 seconds. The instrument panel battery icon now matches MFM battery level. I read page 244 in the manual and I had actually completed the steps except the 10 mile drive, but I think my drive back and forth to dinner may have been about 10 miles. Thanks again my friends! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted August 5, 2013 at 01:07 PM Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 at 01:07 PM Eric4539, what was your vehicle build date? My problems have gone away (knock on wood), since they replaced my 12 volt battery. Apparently diagnostics did not test as a bad battery, although they were running their tests from the front initially, then changed to the back to do their draw testing, where the battery is located. I never got a check engine light or any other warnings. I would sometimes get the low 12 volt battery text, but the first time it happened, I did not get the text until I tried to plug the car back in. All these problems started when the weather got real hot (90 degrees plus) in my area. My fan would run in traffic, when stopped at a light. My fan hasn't been running since it has cooled down (75-85) here now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric4539 Posted August 5, 2013 at 02:26 PM Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 at 02:26 PM Hi mczajka, My build date is 02.02.2013. The temperature where I live has been in the 90's for weeks even reaching 100 degrees; this is typical summer weather here. I have not noticed the fan running when I am driving or when I stop at traffic lights. I do not usually have the radio on so I hope I would have heard the fan running. I work from home so the car is usually sitting in the garage plugged in. On the day my 12v battery was dead it was one of the few times that I unplugged after charging had completed, but I did not unplug until the following morning after charging had completed. The car then sat for one day without being driven, and then on the 2nd day after it was unplugged I had to go to an appointment around 2:30pm. That's when the battery was dead. It's an odd feeling when you open the door and no lights come on. And then I thought about this particular topic that you had started in this forum. You all know more than the dealer and if murphy and larry did not provide instant replies, I would have had the car towed to the dealer. But I did speak with the Energi specialist at the local dealer and I told him that there were several complaints about the 12v battery. So I am taking the car in this week to have the dealer check it. I cannot think of any reason why the batter would have died. I have let the car sit unplugged for up to 3 days and it was fine. Andre07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric4539 Posted August 7, 2013 at 11:07 PM Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 at 11:07 PM Update.... I have not been able to duplicate the dead 12v battery, but I think that's a good thing. I took the car to the dealer today to have them look the car over. I also told them about TSB 13-5-1 for 12v battery unable to hold charge. Also mentioned TSB 13-5-18 for the trunk not staying open (on vehicles manufactured on or before 5-2-13). I also mentioned the cargo net that cannot be installed because the upper hooks in the trunk are missing. I went to pick my car up. The service guy explained that they performed the TSB for the 12 v battery. They ordered the parts for the TSB for the trunk so they will call me when the parts arrive. They have no clue what to do with the cargo net hooks, but said one of their Energi's on the lot does not have the cargo net on the window sticker. They checked that car and said it did not have the upper cargo net hooks installed. He said they checked a Hybrid on their lot and it did have the cargo net included on the window sticker but that vehicle also did not have the upper hooks installed. So they want to see my window sticker to determine what Luxury Package it was included with. It wasn't....it was a stand alone option. I did not want to argue with the service guy so I said I will bring the window sticker with me when I go back to have the trunk fixed. At that time I will also ask about the Aluminum Accelerator and Brake pedals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX NRG Posted August 8, 2013 at 03:06 AM Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 at 03:06 AM You can pull up your window sticker online, just add your VIN to the end of this URL: http://fordlabels.webview.biz/webviewhybrid/WindowSticker.aspx?vin= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric4539 Posted August 8, 2013 at 03:47 AM Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 at 03:47 AM Thanks! Beautiful! I do have my window sticker. I figured that I have to go back in a few days so I will take it with me, and I WILL leave the dealer with cargo net hooks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted August 13, 2013 at 01:15 AM Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 at 01:15 AM Well, after leaving MD for 6 days, when I returned, my 12 volt was dead. This is a new battery. I did not use FordFordMobile to access the car at all during those 6 days, and I did not get a text. It appears the car sent the text at 11 am today, but I only got it after I jumped the car. Back to square one I guess, but I think this only happens when the weather gets hot. A similar thing happened during one of those 95 degree days earlier in July, but within a 9 hour period sitting at work in a hot parking garage. I'm afraid now, again, it will cooler and I won't have these problems. I still can't believe nobody out there experiences their battery fans going on while the car is operating but standing, in hot weather or when the sun has beaten down on the trunk all day. My fans will continue to run, even after I power the car off, and will shut down only when I open and close the trunk. This is highly weird to me. Fortunately this time I kept a battery jumper in the car, but unfortunately it was in the trunk. Another fortunate thing was I had a car flag in the car and I was able to drop the back seat and reach the child safety handle in the trunk to open it. Is there another way to open the trunk when you have no power? Secret hidden key hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 13, 2013 at 01:23 AM Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 at 01:23 AM (edited) If you log on to the MyFord Mobile web site and look at the notifications, clicking in the caption icon near My Account and then view all, do you see any notifications that occurred during the time the car was parked? Edited August 13, 2013 at 01:26 AM by larryh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted August 13, 2013 at 01:55 AM Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 at 01:55 AM Ok, yes, the "12-volt battery is low" notification actually came on 11:21 am on 8/8. The car was only sitting outside in a parking lot for 24 hours. Egads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 13, 2013 at 09:09 AM Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 at 09:09 AM (edited) When connecting to the MyFord Mobile web site, you are connecting to Ford's Cloud Server. Their server will not connect to your car unless you have Auto Update set to On under My Account, click on the update button on the main screen, or modify settings that require syncing with the car. So you should not have to worry about draining the battery when you connect to MyFord Mobile. I think you might want to monitor the notifications at the MyFord Mobile site more closely. I was going to ask if you remembered to disable any GO times that you may have set while on vacation. There is a vacation mode. I have observed the car to wake up prior to the next GO time. That would waste power from the 12 V battery. But the battery was low after only one day? I wonder how the car noticed that the 12-volt battery was low. It must have woke up for some reason and then detected that the battery was low. It then must have contacted MyFord Mobile to send out the notification. I wonder why it would be waking up? In your post showing the battery with 255 miles of EV range, I notice that MyFord Mobile says the car is "Out and About" and that the last update was 5 hours ago. "Out and About" means that the car is running. But I believe it was parked at the dealer at that time. So it seems to have been quite confused when it sent that last update to MyFord Mobile. Did you notice a lot of other notifications while the car was parked, meaning it was contacting MyFord Mobile frequently using energy from the 12 V battery? You could buy a inexpensive battery monitor that plugs into a power point in the car to monitor the battery's charge. Edited August 13, 2013 at 09:40 AM by larryh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted August 13, 2013 at 11:33 AM Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 at 11:33 AM (edited) So, where are the text alerts sent from? Apparently not the cloud, but from the car. I need a device for my car like they give you to walk around and monitor your heart. I have the digital device that plugs into the lighter port. I just need some advice on how/when to use it. It would be nice if I could plug something in that would monitor this for a 24 hour period. MFM auto update is set to off. Edited August 13, 2013 at 12:32 PM by mczajka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted August 13, 2013 at 03:31 PM Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 at 03:31 PM Also, I disabled all the go times before my trip! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre07 Posted August 13, 2013 at 04:07 PM Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 at 04:07 PM (edited) I need a device for my car like they give you to walk around and monitor your heart. I have the digital device that plugs into the lighter port. I just need some advice on how/when to use it. It would be nice if I could plug something in that would monitor this for a 24 hour period. Sounds like either your Battery is not holding a Charge or there is an abnormal high Current Draw from the 12V Battery for some reason or other. Unfortunately most Battery Monitors ppl buy are merely Voltage indicators and are limited to actually monitoring Voltage of the Battery and not the actual current draw on the Battery by the Load. What is needed is a Volt/Amp Monitor. These have a Shunt that is connected (usually) to the Negative Cable (between the Battery and the Car Frame). The Shunt will not impede the Normal current flow in any way. The Shunt has secondary connection Points that connect to the Monitoring Device to Measure Current. The Voltage leads connect to the Battery + and - . This way it can display not only the Voltage of the Battery across the Posts but the actual Current Flow continuously. I would think that one rated for 6-30VDC and 150-200 Amps would be just fine. They have larger ones if needed. They should be available on E-Bay or Performance Auto Shops. Edited August 13, 2013 at 05:13 PM by Andre07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 13, 2013 at 08:36 PM Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 at 08:36 PM (edited) The Ford cloud-computing service connects with your phone via the MyFord Mobile app and with your computer via the MyFord Mobile web site. The car’s onboard wireless module never connects directly with your Mobile phone or computer. The blue-tooth connection between your phone and Sync is a completely different connection. I don’t know why Ford’s server failed to send you a text message notifying you that the battery was low. If you have a battery monitor that plugs into a power point, you can use it to monitor battery charge. You should plug it in so that you can read it by looking in through the car windows. I plug it into the power point in the center console and leave the top open so I can read it. If you read it with the doors open, the car will be drawing charge from the battery and you will get an incorrect reading. Wait at least 15 minutes for everything to turn off and things to settle down before reading the voltage. It should read about 12.6 Volts for a fully charged battery. The car only provides power to the power points for a limited amount of time. So if the power has been shut off, just press the start button twice to turn the car on and off, and then wait about 15 minutes to take the reading. If you take a reading while the car is plugged in and charging, or when the car is running, you will see a voltage higher than 12.6. The 12 V battery is being charged. It ranges from about 13+ volts to 14.5 V when charging. You might want to see what the charge is after you turn the car off when you come home and after HVB charging has completed. The 12 V battery should be fully charged. When you leave in the morning, it should be around 12.5 V. After a couple days, it might be down to 12.35 V. Edited August 13, 2013 at 08:41 PM by larryh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted August 14, 2013 at 11:57 AM Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 at 11:57 AM I think we're getting closer to my problem. Well, my car died again at work yesterday, only after about 9 hours. It's been hot here again, around 85. As I keep telling the Ford dealer, the battery fans are running a lot, when I stop in traffic. After I jumped the car, and got home, I powered the car off. The battery fans were still running. I can usually get them to shut off by opening and closing the trunk. This time I thought, why don't I just let them run and see if they turn off. Well, they were still running after 1 hour (with the car powered off), so I did the open close trunk thing again and left the car overnight (not plugged in). This morning the car was responsive, but I decided to finally take a reading with my lighter plug volt meter. Of course when the car was running, the 12 volt was charging, and the numbers were up in the 14s, but when I powered the car off, and the accessories started shutting down, the readings were under 12, as low as 11.6. These fans or whatever is controlling them must be the problem (in my opinion). They're not always on though when I leave the car sitting, but, is it possible they are coming on at some point while the car is sitting? I don't know. I have experienced these fans coming on when I approach the car, say, if I go into a store, and come back out. When I was driving to the dealer this morning (in 65 degree temps.), the fans were still coming on. I've never experienced this before in such cool temperatures. I think they were even on when I was driving (lower mode), which is a first. So, let's hope this is enough info. for the dealer to troubleshoot this. Andre07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre07 Posted August 14, 2013 at 04:52 PM Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 at 04:52 PM (edited) I think we're getting closer to my problem. Well, my car died again at work yesterday, only after about 9 hours. It's been hot here again, around 85. As I keep telling the Ford dealer, the battery fans are running a lot, when I stop in traffic. After I jumped the car, and got home, I powered the car off. The battery fans were still running. I can usually get them to shut off by opening and closing the trunk. This time I thought, why don't I just let them run and see if they turn off. Well, they were still running after 1 hour (with the car powered off), so I did the open close trunk thing again and left the car overnight (not plugged in). This morning the car was responsive, but I decided to finally take a reading with my lighter plug volt meter. Of course when the car was running, the 12 volt was charging, and the numbers were up in the 14s, but when I powered the car off, and the accessories started shutting down, the readings were under 12, as low as 11.6. These fans or whatever is controlling them must be the problem (in my opinion). They're not always on though when I leave the car sitting, but, is it possible they are coming on at some point while the car is sitting? I don't know. I have experienced these fans coming on when I approach the car, say, if I go into a store, and come back out. When I was driving to the dealer this morning (in 65 degree temps.), the fans were still coming on. I've never experienced this before in such cool temperatures. I think they were even on when I was driving (lower mode), which is a first. So, let's hope this is enough info. for the dealer to troubleshoot this. Yes looks like you are getting closer to your trouble if the Fans are turning on when the Ambient Temperature is as low as 65' F From the Voltage reading you gave the issue I believe is still pointing to a Battery that may not be holding a Charge or something causing a Heavy Current Draw. While Charging, the Lighter Voltage Plug in Monitor will display the current Voltage Potential of the Battery. Lead Acid Batteries are rated at 2.2 V per cell so a 6 Cell Battery used in Automobiles will read 13.2 VDC on a fully charged Battery. Due to unavoidable internal resistance of Lead Acid Batteries each cell actually puts out 2.1V so for the 6 cells the actual Voltage after a few minutes after Charging is around 12.6V Anything over 13.2 V indicates that it is charging. You say you saw 14V displayed on the Plug in Monitor while the car was running, which is fine. With no to very little current draw, the Battery should read 12.6 - 13.0V and should remain at that range for days on end unless there is a Current draw. The Heavier the Current Draw the lower the Voltage on the Battery will be. If it only took a few minutes for the Plug In Monitor to display from 14V when charging to drop down to from 12V to 11.6V then there is a major problem which as I have suggested before could be a Battery that is not maintaining its Voltage (High Internal resistance) or a heavy load, not sure how much current the Fans draw but Could be anywhere from 10 Amps to 20 Amps and this can only be determined with an Amp Meter inline to determine the actual Current Draw on the 12V Battery. Hopefully the dealer will have this instrument to check it. You said that the lowest reading you noticed displayed on the Plug In Monitor was 11.6V. although very low considering a fully charged Battery has a Potential of 13.2V, 11.6V is not really a dead Battery and should be enough to allow the car to function since there is no Starting Motor. So I have a feeling that there must be a Master relay that drops the Battery Voltage off, perhaps to protect the Battery. Is there anything in the Owners Manual about 12V System Preservation Mode? Reading about these issues with the Hydrid and Energi is actually driving me to get my Ford Fusion Energi sooner than later but hard to come up with the $42,000.00 at the moment. Just ran thru the numbers and looks like earliest I can get one would be a month or 2 after Christmas when one of my Loans will be paid off. I have already consolidated so not able to do it again till Feb 2014. Edited August 15, 2013 at 04:03 AM by Andre07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted August 14, 2013 at 06:53 PM Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 at 06:53 PM My dealer has several loaded Energi Titaniums almost $6K off the $45,000 list, so you should do well if you buy late summer/fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 14, 2013 at 09:07 PM Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 at 09:07 PM (edited) Yes, the fans should not be running when the car is off and not charging or waiting to charge. There is no reason for the fans to run under these conditions. As long as the HVB is not being charged or discharged, high temperatures will not harm the battery. So I suspect that the module that controls charging/discharging the battery is not shutting down the way it is supposed to. Edited August 14, 2013 at 09:47 PM by larryh Andre07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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