mczajka Posted July 11, 2013 at 02:17 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 at 02:17 PM I wanted to post my recent experience. I've had the car since March with no problems other than some minor annoyances which I will have fixed. I use a Motorola Droid Razr and the MyFordMoble app. I receive text alerts from the car with status configured online. I last drove the car Tuesday evening. I came home at about 6:30 PM. It was hot that day, so I left the garage open for a while and started charging on Level 2. I unplugged the Level 2 early, at 7:55 PM, and got the warning alert that the vehicle had an accidental unplug while charging in the app. The vehicle had about 17 miles of capacity. My phone was set to charge and was sitting near the garage, in the house. When I returned home from work on Wednesday (I did not drive), about 21 hours later, I tried to start the car and it was completely dead. No lights went on when I entered it, and nothing would work. I had not received any low 12 Volt battery alerts. I did try to plug it in with the Level 2, but there was no response from the car. The ring by the port on the car did not light up like it normally does (which makes sense if the 12 Volt was dead). I did receive a text alert though, which I saw at 5:30 pm. Perhaps at that moment, it somehow got enough power to send a message to the cloud that the 12v battery was low? The message was odd...it said "ENERGI'S 12 volt battery is low. Please plug the vehicle in." When I plugged the Level 2 in, the communication to the car did not initiate, so the light on the SPX was not blinking, so I figured nothing was happening. But perhaps there is some way it can draw power and charge the 12 volt battery? I don't know. I did not leave the Level 2 plugged in. I used a friend's 12 volt battery charger (not sure I even used it right though...the car had a positive and negative terminal, but this appears designed for jumping, because the negative just looks like a bolt. I connected it for about an hour, and it appeared to do something because I was able to power the car on and get the engine running in EV hold mode by pressing the accellerator. So my question is, will the Level 2 somehow trickle charge the 12 volt battery if it appears not to be initiated with the car? I did plug the Level 2 back in and completely charge the large battery after the 1 hour 12 volt charge session. Hopefully during this process the 12 volt was also charging more. I don't know. We'll see what happens when I get home tonight after the car has been sitting for another 18 hours or so. I'm still going to take it in for service to get the 12 volt battery tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted July 11, 2013 at 02:32 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 at 02:32 PM The 240 volt charger will charge the 12 volt battery after it finishes charging the HVB.Typically when I get the text message that the HVB has been charged the yellow light on my Leviton charger is still on. Sometimes it stays on for a couple more hours before it shuts off. The current draw by the charger is very low during this period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73mach1 Posted July 11, 2013 at 04:54 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 at 04:54 PM (edited) Oops Edited July 11, 2013 at 04:58 PM by 73mach1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadRock Posted July 11, 2013 at 05:40 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 at 05:40 PM You might check out TSB 13-5-1 (HYBRID AND ENERGI - 12VOLT BATTERY UNABLE TO HOLD CHARGE - CHARGING IMPROVEMENTS (SUPERSEDED BY 13-6-23)) http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3545/tsb13-05-01.pdf You can also check out my TSB cheat sheet for more TSB info... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq27rda5d4oedDVENzJYckQ1U2Y2WXdNZWFXWmhmY1E&usp=sharing KMR107 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted July 11, 2013 at 08:31 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 at 08:31 PM (edited) Something must not have shut off like it was supposed to after you unplugged the car. Another software bug? The car cannot charge either battery unless it has power to the on-board electronics in the car that are responsible for charging the batteries. I know that while waiting to charge with the charge setting set to "Value Charge", the on-board electronics consume 60 watts of power waiting to charge. Some of that power is used to charge the 12 volt battery until it is time to charge. But I think it needs to 12 volt battery to initially supply the power. Otherwise, it gets the 60 watts from the charger. Edited July 11, 2013 at 08:34 PM by larryh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 12, 2013 at 12:35 PM Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2013 at 12:35 PM (edited) Thanks. The car has been fine since, and it is in for service this morning for a 12 volt battery check and a few other minor things. I included the battery tsp. I've also been careful with my cell phone and the connection to the car (but this is still all a mystery to me). Edited July 12, 2013 at 12:38 PM by mczajka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 16, 2013 at 05:14 PM Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 at 05:14 PM My battery tested fine. I've since disconnected my phone and bluetooth until I can figure this out (which I can't imagine draw that much power). The fans are running a lot more though with the extreme heat. They run everytime I stop in traffic or at a light. I saw another thread about how the Volt works, because people have had 12 volts go dead on them too, after sitting for a while. This thread talks about how the Volt 12 Volt battery gets charged: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?58489 I'm working to get an answer from Ford on how the Energi models work in this regard. Murphy above said this "The 240 volt charger will charge the 12 volt battery after it finishes charging the HVB." Which could be the case, but I want to verify with Ford. I would hope the 12 Volt is charged like the Volt, during the HVB charge and while you are driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM (edited) 12 volt died again today after a full big battery charge late last night. Drove to work today in 80 deg. temps, a/c, radio, cooling fans go on when I stop in traffic. 2 miles of range left when I parked. 8 hours later, dead as a doornail. I need to take a day off to get this fixed but will be forcing them to install the latest battery TSB, even though it references cold weather. Car is still in a garage in DC. When I arrive in DC, could the battery be at such a low state that the built in AT&T connectivity (to update the cloud) is killing it? Build date was 2/12/13 Edited July 17, 2013 at 12:34 AM by mczajka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted July 17, 2013 at 01:09 AM Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 01:09 AM The 12 volt battery should be charging the entire time the car is in run mode. I have measured a current spike of over 10 amperes (the limit of my meter is 10 amps) when I request an update from the car via myfordmobile. It takes several minutes to settle back down to the static draw of around 0.2 ampere. Doing a global window close after the car is turned off is a significant load (5 motors at the same time) on the battery. I have a voltmeter, that plugs into a power tap, in my car all of the time. Quite often when I turn the car on it shows 11.1 volts. IMHO the battery is way too small for the load it has to handle. I had the original TSB installed before it was replaced by the new one. I have seen no effect on the battery voltage decay when the car sits unused for a few days. I wonder if the HVB fans fire up when the car is off if it gets too hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombsAuthor Posted July 17, 2013 at 02:25 PM Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 02:25 PM I haven't heard the fans turn on after the charge cycle is complete and completely agree with you that the battery is too small for what it is asked to do. Since I typically don't drive mine every day, I'm gonna start random checking the voltage to get a baseline of data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 17, 2013 at 07:09 PM Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 07:09 PM I just wonder with the heat why we haven't seen more people in Phoenix and other parts of the country complaining. I have to go on vacation in Aug. and the car will be sitting at the airport for 6-7 days. I have a battery powered jumper ordered but you shouldn't have to do this with a $42,000 car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 17, 2013 at 07:39 PM Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 07:39 PM Back to the cooling fans for the big battery. I don't like the fact that these can go on when I get near the car, and the car hasn't been powered on yet. Again, all these things have happened only in the last two weeks as the air temp. started getting into the upper 80's/90's. When I first got the car, and for several months, the cooling fans would only go on when charging the car at night, and it appeared that there were a few fan power levels...like low, and high. High would kick in, in a hot garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted July 17, 2013 at 07:49 PM Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 07:49 PM I just wonder with the heat why we haven't seen more people in Phoenix and other parts of the country complaining. I have to go on vacation in Aug. and the car will be sitting at the airport for 6-7 days. I have a battery powered jumper ordered but you shouldn't have to do this with a $42,000 car.In case it does die have you practiced unlocking the car with the metal key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 17, 2013 at 10:30 PM Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 10:30 PM Yes, I couldn't figure it out last night. After reading the online manual, it was still confusing, but I figured it out this morning, charged the 12 volt for 1/2 hour, and I was off and running back to the dealer. My battery jumper is coming tomorrow. It should be interesting when I go on vacation next month and leave the car sitting in the airport lot. Perhaps I should get a solar trickle charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric4539 Posted July 17, 2013 at 11:27 PM Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 11:27 PM I appreciate all the information from everyone about the 12V battery. I leave my car plugged in and it sits for 2 or 3 days before being driven. This time of year we have days in the mid 90's to over 100 degrees. I have never heard the fan kick on once the charging has completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 18, 2013 at 11:58 AM Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 at 11:58 AM Interesting. This could be part of the problem which I mentioned to the dealer. Perhaps some kind of temperature sensor in there is bad. The fans go on everytime I stop at a light or I stop in traffic. These are the same fans you hear when the car is charging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric4539 Posted July 18, 2013 at 06:41 PM Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 at 06:41 PM In all my driving so far the fans have never come on if I'm stopped in traffic or stopped at a traffic light. I hope your dealer can diagnose and resolve your issue mczajka. I have never purchased a first model year vehicle with the thought that any bugs would be resolved in subsequent model years. But I decided to buy a 2013 because I wanted the Ginger Ale Energi Titanium. So far so good with my Energi, and I do not regret not waiting. Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nherring Posted July 20, 2013 at 01:48 AM Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 at 01:48 AM I posted my experiences today under Advanced Driver Assist section. Interesting how few people at Ford understand this yet. I plan on leaving a trickle charge on my 12 volt battery when I head on vacation for two weeks at the end of August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 20, 2013 at 01:29 PM Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 at 01:29 PM I agree Nherring. Hey, my car is still at the dealer. After two days of troubleshooting with no problems, I had them drive it around one more time then let it sit last night. I got a low battery notification and some strange info coming from the Ford App. Bet your Energi can't do 255 miles on the battery like mine can! LOL...Waiting for service to call me back after they try to get into the car, which I think it dead. At least I got this alert this time. I haven't been getting any notifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric4539 Posted July 20, 2013 at 03:14 PM Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 at 03:14 PM Holy moly!! 255 miles and yet the battery shows empty!! Now does the dealer believe you that something is very wrong?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted July 20, 2013 at 04:58 PM Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 at 04:58 PM (edited) Ford needs to come up with more robust/failsafe control hardware/sofware for the car. If things aren't working properly, the software/hardware should degrade gracefully. It needs to recognize things aren't working properly. If the 12-volt battery is low, it needs to stop the drain on the battery. For example, don't connect to Ford Mobile when the 12-volt battery is low or do other things that require a lot of power that aren't really necessary. Unfortunately it is difficult to thoroughly test and debug such new and complex designs, anticipating every possible contingency. And the initial buyers are forced to help debug their products and identify quality problems in their manufacturing processes. I would hope after they get all these problems straightened out they would at least thank us for the risks that we are taking when buying a newly designed product in which the bugs have not all been worked out by at least providing software updates to the control modules (which we would have in the first place had they tested the problem earlier). I really like the Fusion Energi. I would be very disappointed if it did not work correctly and were continually plagued with problems. It has a lot of state of the art and innovative engineering design. It would be ashamed if they could not come up with a reliable way to execute that design. Edited July 22, 2013 at 08:50 PM by larryh Andre07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted July 20, 2013 at 06:24 PM Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 at 06:24 PM (edited) The 12 volt battery should be charging the entire time the car is in run mode. I have measured a current spike of over 10 amperes (the limit of my meter is 10 amps) when I request an update from the car via myfordmobile. It takes several minutes to settle back down to the static draw of around 0.2 ampere. Doing a global window close after the car is turned off is a significant load (5 motors at the same time) on the battery. I have a voltmeter, that plugs into a power tap, in my car all of the time. Quite often when I turn the car on it shows 11.1 volts. IMHO the battery is way too small for the load it has to handle. I had the original TSB installed before it was replaced by the new one. I have seen no effect on the battery voltage decay when the car sits unused for a few days. I wonder if the HVB fans fire up when the car is off if it gets too hot.So if the charge on the 12 Volt battery is low, the car is going to contact MyFord Mobile drawing current which spikes over 10 amps from the battery and doesn't die down for several minutes so that it can send out a notification that the battery charge is low? If the battery weren't dead yet, that would probably finish it off. How do you measure the current from the battery without disconnecting it? If you disconnect it, then you will have reset everything as described on page 244 of the manual. Edited July 20, 2013 at 08:29 PM by larryh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 20, 2013 at 06:27 PM Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 at 06:27 PM And yes, the car is dead. This is good for me, because now I hope they believe what I am saying. Unfortunately, you have to use the car to get it to fail. If you use a charging station every night, you may not uncover this problem. This is all building up to me going on a flight in a few weeks. I hope it's resolved by then, otherwise when I return, my car will be dead in the airport parking lot, and I will have to use my new battery jumper. This brings me back to the Volt, which I really wanted, but due to my height, the comfort factor is nowhere near the Fusion. But I recall them driving Volts in the deserts and in the snow, testing it for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Energized Posted July 22, 2013 at 01:18 AM Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 at 01:18 AM Did the water spill in your trunk get any electrical components wet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted July 22, 2013 at 05:27 PM Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 at 05:27 PM (edited) This is a good question. I don't think so. It was only about 1 gallon of water and the wells that hold the air compressor and charger caught it, as well as the covering over them, which appears to be designed to capture liquid in the case of a spill. What a horrible design this would be though if this stuff wasn't protected. Wouldn't you agree? I've since contacted the dealer to let them know about this. Thanks for reminding me. The car was fine right after this happened and wasn't really a problem until a little over 3 weeks later. I immediately caught the spill and was able to dry out the top piece which can be removed. Edited July 22, 2013 at 05:42 PM by mczajka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.