rprobst

Thanks, Robert! There was a Fusion Energi at the San Francisco Auto Show over Thanksgivng weekend, but the trunk was locked and I couldn't get anyone to open it for inspection. Hope your luck is better. Also, very curious if the rear seats fold down, and if there's a pass-through.

I wonder what the statistic is for US buyers? Personally, I agree, I have already and will again spend more for a greener car. I expect this attitude to become more prevalent in the future.

I've driven a Fusion ICE Titanium, Fusion Hybrid (took 2 tries -- 1st time the dealer had sold the car before I could get there), C-Max Hybrid and C-Max Energi -- which was really impressive. Everything I want to test except for the Fusion Energi. Oh, and I do want to test-drive the Accord Plug-in before I place any order; drove the 2013 Accord ICE and must say that Honda has done a great job -- too bad they put the B-team designers on the Plug-in exterior. The San Jose auto show is this weekend. I will stop by to see if they have a Fusion Energi with the trunk unlocked. It's a smaller show, however, so they may not even have an Energi.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I couldn't watch the video at work - should have, before I responded to ChuckJ - but glad I saw it now. BTW, did you notice the (non-body-color) shark-fin antenna on the Fusion prototype? So I do see that the trunk floor looks higher than in the Hybrid trunk. But thankfully Ford didn't put the battery back there, for weight distribution. In the C-Max Energi, there is similarly a little storage bin behind the battery. Boy, I'm really impatient to see this thing in person.

Yeah, me too.

ChuckJ, I am having a hard time understanding what your sales guy told you. I assume by "FFI" you meant the Energi? But it doesn't make sense that the Energi battery comes out to the lip of the trunk opening. First, you'd want to keep the weight over the rear axle. Second, look at this link that pluggedin posted a while back: http://www.evsafetytraining.org/resources/auto-manufacturer-resources/~/media/Files/PDFs/2013%20Fusion%20Hybrid%20%20Fusion%20Energi%20%20MKZ%20Hybrid%20ERG.pdf On page 15 you can clearly see the Energi battery extends higher than the Hybrid battery, but does not extend farther towards the back of the car. So that means the Energi trunk is as high as the Hybrid's but not very deep. Sure wish we could see a picture of the Energi trunk!

Thanks!

I suspect that doubling the weight of the batteries will also affect the MPG.

Until I thought about your comment for a while, I believed that fold-down rear seats only make sense with a pass-through from the trunk. But now I realize that even if there is no pass-through with the Energi, it would still be a good feature to be able to flip the rear seats down to have a flat cargo surface and to protect the seat material. Yes, I could use a pass-through, but I could also use fold-down rear seats without a pass-through.

We own a Prius now, and I'm glad we have a hybrid, but I'm very certain our next car will be a plug-in. I don't think of this decision in terms of calculating the break-even point. For me, this is an ethical issue, being a good steward. Imagine if the Energi were not an electric car at all. Instead, imagine if that big box in the trunk was not a battery but was a portable carbon sequestration unit (PCSU). The car would have a gas engine, but the PCSU would scrub the exhaust and capture the carbon. In short, you would have to put gas in the car, just like a regular Fusion, no savings there, but you would put less carbon into the atmosphere. Would you buy it? If it cost $50,000 more than the gas Fusion, I wouldn't buy it -- it would simply be out of my reach. If it cost $500 more than the hybrid, wouldn't you buy it? Wouldn't most people? No gas savings, no break-even calculation, but for $500 you could reduce your carbon footprint from driving. For me, this would be a no-brainier. If you agree, then like that old joke says, now we are just discussing the price. :) The Energi is quite a bit more expensive than the Fusion hybrid, but I can afford it, and I want to reduce my carbon footprint, not with an imaginary PCSU but with a car that will run purely on electric power most days, as I drive around town. So it has value to me. What is the break-even point for buying a Ferrari? People buy cars not just for economics, but because they have value which you value. Except I don't want a sports car, I want a smaller footprint.

Thanks for checking that, ChuckJ. I just tried to match your configuration. I don't know exactly what options you picked to add up to $3,625. (All of the comparisons in my original post are with no options, for simplicity -- when I eventually order, I will put everything on except parking assist, but I've been comparing cars with no options.) I configured an Energi SE with $3,635 in options. USAA told me the target price was $45,346, which is $2,221 above MSRP -- "due to market conditions". So there is a huge difference in the TrueCar price for the same Fusion Energi purchased in Dallas and purchased in Silicon Valley. Almost a $3,000 difference. "Due to market conditions." What, too many people in California want to buy the car? I haven't called USAA about this yet, but I intend to. This really makes me disappointed in TrueCar pricing. And very impatient to see X-Plan pricing for the Fusion Energi and Energi Ti. Incidentally, X-Plan pricing *is* up for C-Max Energi: - Hybrid SEL -- $1,272 less than MSRP - Energi -- $1,531 less than MSRP And when I put in my zip code, X-Plan also applies a $500 incentive for the C-Max Hybrid, but not for the C-Max Energi. Any Ford people reading this forum who might want to comment on when X-Plan pricing for a Fusion Energi Titanium might appear?

Connecting the dots... Pluggedin has posted this document that shows where the Energi battery is:

USAA has put up their (TrueCar-based) pricing for Fusion Energi. Bad news, it's actually higher than MSRP. Maybe they think that these prices are discounts compared to the premium that dealers will add to MSRP if you don't go through USAA. Comparing the USAA/TrueCar prices to MSRP for the non-battery Fusions, the discounts are as follows: - S -- $2,130 less than MSRP - SE -- $2,533 less - Titanium -- $2,980 less For the Hybrid, there is still a benefit to going through USAA/TrueCar, but not so much: - Hybrid -- $1,498 less than MSRP But for the Energi, it goes the other way: - Energi -- $2,611 more than MSRP - Energi Titanium -- $2,495 more That's right, USAA/TrueCar pricing for Energi is thousands over MSRP. I remember that when I bought my '98 A4, we got a great deal going through USAA, but when it came time to get my wife a Prius in '05, USAA couldn't help us at all. But we did pay list for the Prius (had to load it up with every option, even after-market leather seats, but didn't pay thousands over MSRP). X-Plan pricing for the Energi is not yet available. For the 3 non-battery Fusions, X-Plan prices are about $1,200 more than USAA/TrueCar prices. But for the Hybrid, X-Plan pricing is almost the same -- only $32 more than USAA/TrueCar. I am really looking forward to seeing the X-Plan pricing for the Energi and Energi Titanium! Has anybody heard of USAA/TrueCar prices higher than MSRP before?

Oh, it was your sales guy! Sorry for my lousy memory...

Wow, great picture of the Energi battery! Thanks, pluggedin! Someone some time before posted that he had been told by a sales person that the Energi rear seats do fold down, 60-40. I'm having a hard time believing that, seeing how large the battery is. The Honda Accord plug-in rear seats do not fold down, reportedly. I suspect that that sales person was confused about the difference between a Fusion Hybrid and Fusion Energi. Of course, I'm open to being pleasantly surprised. Can't wait until one of us has some quality time in a Fusion Energi.

That doesn't make any sense. If the car is mere weeks away from the start of manufacturing, they are not now working on re-engineering the battery placement. The engineering of the 2013 model must be fixed in stone at this point.

I will try USAA also. I used them to get my best price last time, so I know that works. So far, I don't see Fusion Energi at USAA. Do you know if they can quote a price before the dealer has published the invoice numbers? I've never used X-Plan. I learned about it from the Blue Oval forum. If Ford would just hurry up and publish the info / update the web sites, I could compare the X-Plan price and the USAA price and get on with ordering.

I am waiting for X-Plan pricing. Currently the X-Plan site lists the Fusion Hybrid (and other Fusion models) but not the Energi. I suppose I could ask the dealer to quote me an X-Plan price on the Energi, but that seems to defeat the purpose. I would rather get the price from Ford before I go to the dealer -- the real attraction of X-Plan is that it's a no-haggle offer (you can probably do better than X-Plan if you are really good at negotiating... but I don't enjoy that game). Also, to be honest, I don't want the very first one manufactured. I would like about 50 people to buy Energis ahead of me, just so they can get the wrinkles out. But I am so jonesing for this car that I will probably order as soon as X-Plan pricing is available.

Pluggedin, that link is not working for me -- just puts me back to this same forum. Copy-&-paste error?

Yeah, you're right. I said what *I* would do, not what Ford actually did. Maybe they are competing on a price-per-seat basis? :) I definitely hope we see some healthy price competition between the plug-in hybrids. That's what will drive the volumes.

Yeah, these cars are moving fast. The first time I went to the dealer to drive the Fusion hybrid, they had sold it by the time I got there. So the next time they told me they had one, I raced over to get to it before it was gone.

The Fusion Energi was at the San Francisco auto show over Thanksgiving weekend. Unfortunately the trunk was closed. They also had a C-Max Energi, but the car was locked and the privacy panel was pulled shut, so you couldn't see the battery size. They had a C-Max hybrid, which was open. Ford is still acting embarrassed about the larger batteries in the PHEVs. But there are pictures in other forums of the C-Max Energi cargo space, so anybody who cares can see the impact of the larger battery. Ford, dear friends, it's OK, you can show the Fusion Energi trunk! I've driven the Fusion hybrid and the C-Max hybrid, and both had very nice mid-speed acceleration, which is what makes a car feel "zippy". I don't care about the time to 60 mph, I just care if I can speed up to change lanes or get around a moving speed-bump. I put my foot down in the Fusion hybrid on the freeway and was up to 90 before I knew it. And the car was very smooth and quiet at 90; the salesman didn't even realize how fast we were going until I commented. My wife's Prius does not have very good mid-speed acceleration. My Audi A4 does. I like the way the Fusion hybrid feels, and I really hope the extra battery weight in the Fusion Energi doesn't hurt the acceleration too much. Of course it will take something away, but seems to me that there's acceleration to spare.

Jsamp, here is how I think it could happen. Imagine that you're the Ford executive responsible for pricing the Fusion Energi. Now imagine that you have been given a background briefing on a possible change to a "flat" incentive policy that might be proposed, or might not -- in short, information about as reliable as a rumor. And nobody wants to talk about it openly, because everyone (EPA, Ford, GM, Toyota...) knows that if the buying public believes incentives will be better next year, current-year sales will tank -- so it's also about as verifiable as a rumor. If the policy change happens, the incentive for the Fusion Energi and the Volt will be the same, even though they have different battery sizes. If it doesn't happen, the Volt price after incentives will be $3750 less next year, just as it is this year. Do you price the difference in? That is, do you assume the change won't happen and set the Fusion Energi price based on the current proportional incentive structure? I wouldn't. I would set the Fusion Energi price to just under the Volt price. If the change happens, I win; my customers get the same incentive as GM's customers, even though the battery is smaller. If it doesn't happen, I can always try to get approval from my boss for several thousand dollars in dealer cash per vehicle. But I wouldn't even do that until I saw that I was losing sales to Volts on price. Above all, I wouldn't discuss this, and I would hope that nobody speculated about this on a public forum.

Love it that the spec sheet shows the total luggage capacity as "TBD". More like "TBA", since it must already be known within Ford. But we all know the Fusion Energi trunk is going to be smaller than the Hybrid, as the Hybrid is smaller than the ICE Fusion. Ford, it's OK, you can tell us how big the trunk is. If we needed more space, we'd be looking at the C-Max Energi instead.

Yes, I believe this is why Chevy was able to offer such sweet-heart lease deals on the Volt this year, because the leasing company gets the tax credit.