openair

18c this morning. Exact same issue. Obviously not the cold. Way to stand by your product ford.

 

I've been told by a friend of a friend who works for a ford dealership, who at first thought they could help me, that I have been flagged as a repeat caller and will receive shitty service no matter which dealership I try.

The dealer had the vehicle since Tuesday. They received instructions from the hotline to gather some data. They gathered this data at much warmer temps then when the issue occurs and did not attempt to reproduce the driving conditions (EV later use) leading to the issue. They also did not even try to reproduce the engine vibrating noise at similar temps they agreed may point to a shared component that may be the true cause. The conclusion from the hotline that they did not even attempt to argue even after I told them it did not behave this way in the much cooler weather this winter is that the threshold should drop during cooler weather. I'm done wasting my time and money with this vehicle and ford.

 

The threshold should drop in the winter, in the much colder weather. It did the first winter I owned the vehicle. It did not behave the same all this winter, as it did the first. It remained at four bars almost the entire winter. The same trip at 1-3C recently had no issues. The bar remained at 4 while the EV range depleted from 100 to 0.

While my fusion is in the shop again I've got an edge with sync 3 touch from the rental company. It certainly is more responsive but imo that is about the only advantage over sync 2 touch.

 

More things are hidden under other menus and presses. Some information and options are just gone. The layout is annoying with less information on each screen and things divided up into more screens.

 

The steering wheel controls and the right lcd has lost climate controls and text messaging. Guess rather than fix the right lcd's issue with texts they just removed that option.

 

Was also listening to Bluetooth music from my phone until the music suddenly stopped and I could not get it to play from Bluetooth again until I restarted the vehicle.

Maybe someone from Ford actually watches these forums and will contact me to investigate.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Multiple times someone on this forum will offer 'extra help' for an issue and put me into contact with a customer service manager who in the end tells me they cannot help and only actually offer assistance with out of warranty issues.

Everyday I lose a little more hope that trading in my 2014 for a 2017 would result in a better experience.

Again this morning it crashed to 3 bars. Took it straight to the dealer but running on EV later to get there and the temps warming up had the HVB charge 4% by the time I got there and showed slightly different behaviour. Showed the tech the instant drop to 1.8 bars during the transition to hybrid mode and return to 4 bars upon breaking a couple times. Tech also confirmed he got those instructions that cannot apply to my vehicle from the hotline.

 

Also noticed something else weird. Pressing the drive mode toggle with the Hybrid portion of the battery at about 95% had the vehicle switch between auto, now and later, the battery icon return to the 3d icon with 0km and the touch screen display change from 0% to 2%. Idk I've ever tried pushing the toggle at this specific a state of charge but once it changes to the hybrid battery icon and shows 0% on the touch screen the toggle should not work. The touch screen should definitely not have the state of change jump 2% for no reason other than the toggle being pushed. Can some else try to reproduce this please?

The 2013-2016 model year numbers are based on measurements made for the C-Max Energi (they expected it to outsell the Fusion Energi).  Since the Fusion Energi far outsells the C-Max Energi, they are probably using the actual Fusion Energi measurements now.  The Fusion Energi is more aerodynamic and hence has better range, MPGe, and MPG than the C-Max Energi.  In that case, there probably is no significant change in range, MPGE, or MPG between the 2013-2016 model years and the 2017 model year.   

 

According to the link in the op the 2017 has a more efficient electric motor.

Again this morning the ice threshold dropped to 3 bars and gradually recovered. Twice within 3 minutes. It was 4c. The return trip home yesterday afternoon at 23c showed no issues. If the sensors are going bad such that the battery thinks that it is overheating when this occurs, they're going bad in such a way that it only affects them between 4 and 7C.

 

It seems more likely to me that the ~5c drop in temp during my 80km commute combined with the charging from EV later for the middle of the trip is leading to more cell variance than the bms is use to dealing with. It never use to have issues with this kind of temperature variance though so I believe this indicates a bad cell.

I think the dealership has been busy this week and were using the hotline as an excuse. They returned with reset the lifetime summary, check under the leaf icon on the touch screen for KWs at 100% charge and advice about how the DTE range on the battery icon works.

 

I pointed out the 2014s don't have a life time summary, the touch screen lists KWs no where and that I never said anything about the DTE range or anything of the sort.

Again this morning. 7c. Multiple sudden drops of the ice threshold within 3 minutes. Dropped to between 2.25 and 3 bars and gradually recovered with no changes in speed or power demand. First time since Monday. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday were warmer with no issue.

 

Dealership said Monday they wanted to talk to the hotline first. Called again this morning, 4 days later, and they're still waiting to hear anything from the hot line. I get quicker responses for technical support for free apps on my phone or PC. I get quicker support for every other product I've ever needed technical support for in my life and none of those cost anywhere near $35k.

 

'But $35k means more complex.' The dealership and hotline aren't even going back and forth on simple things like maybe it overheated. Maybe it's a sensor. Just nothing.

Maybe, but we're talking relatively warmer. 5 to 15C instead of -5c. It also is unlikely that it thinks it is overheating more often during the transition from EV to hybrid mode than any other time as well. There was also a week or so of 20+c weather as well with less issue. Or only think it is overheating enough that limiting it to 3.75 would have a meaningful affect.

 

Also, at least in the case of when it dropped to 3 bars, the ice never engaged, there was no reduction in actually power requested from the HVB, so no opportunity for it to cool at all.

 

Warmer on the way home this afternoon. No sudden drop in EV power.

Starting this past fall I've notice an intermittent reduction of the ice threshold from 4 bars to 3.75 bars. Passed it off as cold weather. However as the weather warm up this is becoming more consistent and severe.

 

Couple times between 1 and 3 km remaining of EV range the ice threshold would drop to ~3 bars and gradually recover with no change in speed or other driving. Sometimes the transition from 1km or 0km to hybrid mode has the ice threshold instantly crash to 2 bars rather than gradually.

 

This morning on my way into work the ice threshold crashed from 4 bars to less than 2 bars with 5 km or ~15+% remaining of the EV range. It then gradually recovered and crashed again a short time later. It did this two or three times within 5 minutes.

 

Likely symptoms of one or more damage HVB cells.

They replaced that sensor back in Feb. Had the service engine light come on again yesterday morning. 2 months after replacing the sensor. Same error code as last time. They inspected some wiring and connectors this time and found a connector who's pin was damaged and not holding correctly. They're replacing the pin.

 

The 25% to 50% quadrant of the charging port led ring had also been intermittently flashing and then dead so they're ordering a replacement ring to install next week as well.

Well, it hasn't actually been passed into law. Still not sure if it is useful, considering that they get so much power from fossil fuel anyway. But then Holland is a small country, and folks ride a lot of bikes there anyway. I'd expect hydrogen to get big if they actually did this.

Yes, that is what "looks" in their title implies. If it were not tentative in some way they would have just said "has."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/trans-canada-highway/netherlands-looks-to-ban-all-gas-diesel-car-sales-by-2025/article29583676/

 

Netherlands looks to ban all gas and diesel cars by 2025.

Your own links are divided on the issue. The second states hybrids are cleaner. They both state evs are cleaner in many states depending on the grid.

 

The problem here is the grid in eastern states. Not EVs. There are also entire countries that have grids as clean as the western states.

 

Ontario, Canada power generation today: https://www.cns-snc.ca/media/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelectricity.html

 

The only air pollution on the list is gas at 6% and biofuels at 1%. Edit: Oh, gas is up to 25% when the wind is low. Still, ~75% emission free.

No, because I don't particularly believe the health scares. We are still putting far more pollution out with EV cars than the newest ICE vehicles, or hybrid vehicles. Those news stories were based on "calculated" costs, not actual costs; there are no hard numbers.

There are no hard numbers yet you state hybrids and Ev's cause more pollution like it's a fact based on numbers. I state it's not true based on the same non hard numbers.

 

Synthetics are also more expensive than oil sands. Investment in oil sands has declined to a low not seen in 70 years since the price of oil has fallen this low. While investments in EV tech and renewable green energy continue to grow. Those seem like hard numbers to me. I wonder what other numbers these investors are looking at...

How much energy does that take? And aren't they still using some natural base stocks?

 

Certainly isn't as cheap or convenient as foreign oil and fracking or we wouldn't be importing, causing earth quakes and polluting ground water instead.

 

BTW, I wonder how Steve quantifies the yet unknown and ever increasing health and property costs associated with fracking and fossil fuels in general in their "cheaper and more convenient."

I believe there was life time info on the 2013 model year but was removed for 2014 and later

Let's face it, Ford's projections of the plugin market and Ford's product response to those projections have been more realistic. Time has proven their projections correct.

 

Since Ford seems to be more grounded in the realities of the market and more in tune with what the public really wants when it comes to plugins. I have little doubt their $4.5 Billion investment in 13 new electrified vehicles before 2020 will be well matched to market demands.

That's one way to spin it but since ford also released a BEV with similar specs to the leaf I call fanboy.

 

In reality what ford did is say this is not a (guessing) game. It's real life and lots of jobs. So they convered their bases by releasing some of everything.

The Energi didn't sell all that well because the dealers didn't want any part of them. I had a tough time finding an electric certified dealer when I ordered mine in 2013. I ordered it because no one had one in stock.

If you combine the two energi models they're at worst tied for second place. Both so far this year and for 2015 as well. I don't call that not selling well.

 

"But that's not fair to others on the list!" Combining these two vehicle's sales that have identical powertrains and really just offer more choice to the consumer is no less unfair than putting BEVs and PHEVs on the same list like they're competitors to begin with.

Furthermore... foreign car makers such as Honda put labor in the USA... how is it less expensive for them to buy our labor force?

My guess is Nafta and the percentage of parts tariffs. Honda likely doesn't as much in tariffs now that more of their parts come from within NA.

Transportation by electricity is just part of a solution, does it really help if emissions are shifted to non renewable power creation, maybe some due to efficiency. We continue to reduce emissions and improve efficiency to stay ahead of the number of power plants required or cars on the road. Only have to look to China or other populous places on this planet to see that the air becomes toxic if we don't at least try.

Last year Paris France had so much air pollution you could not see the eiffel tower from even a short distance away. In response Paris banned all gas and diesel vehicle manufactured before a certain date from Paris.

 

For the deniers: yes, the reason they choose those dates is efficiency but efficiency only goes so far and as more ppl buy newer cars and populations continue to grow and result in more vehicles efficiency will have to continue to grow as well and the dates of those vehicles banned will continue to move up.

 

Also, as far as electric vehicles impact on economy, what effect on the tourism economy do you think the reduced view of and from the eiffel tower will have?

Personally, I don't think they can be profitable yet. Time will tell. But the government should bow out of the market and let it settle.

If the government does not get involved than nothing will change. The oil companies and big money would continue to prevail. These subsidies and proposed increased taxes on fossil fuels and other carbon producers are the least disruptive tools a democratic capitalist government has to wean the modern world from our self destructive addiction to fossil fuels and the resulting profits. Same as taxes on cigarettes. Our children future is more important than short term profit.

 

Things need to change from the current 2+2=5 that the majority of ppl embrace for reasons far above profit and competition.

 

The pentagon has declared air pollution a national security threat. The WHO has declared air pollution one of the top health threats across the globe.

I actually disagree. I don't think electric cars are viable without subsidies. Until fossil fuels become scarce, ICE cars are still more profitable. When oil runs out there will be a need for alternatives. I don't know when that will happen - it was predicted for 1985, 1995, 2005, 2020, and I don't know what the current date is (but I wouldn't bet on it, whatever the number). And remember, oil can be synthesized; it does not have to come from fossil sources.

 

Profit, cheap and convenient are quickly taking a back seat to climate change issues. There are other reasons, like our children's future, to reduce fossil fuel use.

However, I couldn't find any distinctions/stipulations noted between the Hybrid and Energi models for any of the above.

 

Seems like a pitfall of having a combined owners manual, if you're gonna do that then make sure things are stipulated properly when there are differences, and doesn't look like they did.

There are distinctions for the separate section. At least in my manual. Right above the section you quote about the intelligent oil life monitor "fusion energi plug in hybrid."

 

The 2016 manual makes the distinction a little less obvious. It lists an oil change interval of 10000 miles under the heading oil change indicator. Then it lists the (up to) 20000 mile interval under the heading intelligent oil life monitor (if equipped). So the 2016 manual makes the distinction by the presence of the intelligent oil life monitor (in the energi).